[poquas]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Anyone who dislikes a policy or act of the government can vote it out next election without trying to rewrite the rules to satisfy everyone's latest bitch.

That's' democracy. One must wonder if all those screaming for change got off their colective holes and voted during the last election?

Stopping debate by proroguing is not democracy. I don’t like the ability of any PM to prorogue at a whim. Harper set a new low though as a minority government under the gun on a number of fronts. Then to dismiss the reaction that followed demonstrated an arrogance even I was surprised to see.

The Afghan detainee committee in particular should have been completed and I don’t care how far back you go. It appears that a number of key people in the government were caught lying and attempted to scapegoat a civil servant to hide from the consequences (and now they’ve cut of the payment to his lawyer?). It has nothing to do with the soldiers in the field, it’s a political problem that should be resolved.

Same goes with Harpers desired control of the Senate. By proroguing he of course killed a number of bills and has set up a situation that allows him to replace the chairmen in all sitting committees which of course can derail any more negative leaks about the government.

All in all, it was a cowardly act by an autocrat who can’t seem to handle the pressure, AND FOR THE RECORD, I voted Conservative in the last election and have regretted it ever since. I have the right to complain.

[Gunnair]

poquas poquas:

Gunnair Gunnair:

Anyone who dislikes a policy or act of the government can vote it out next election without trying to rewrite the rules to satisfy everyone's latest bitch.

That's' democracy. One must wonder if all those screaming for change got off their colective holes and voted during the last election?

Stopping debate by proroguing is not democracy. I don’t like the ability of any PM to prorogue at a whim. Harper set a new low though as a minority government under the gun on a number of fronts. Then to dismiss the reaction that followed demonstrated an arrogance even I was surprised to see.

The Afghan detainee committee in particular should have been completed and I don’t care how far back you go. It appears that a number of key people in the government were caught lying and attempted to scapegoat a civil servant to hide from the consequences (and now they’ve cut of the payment to his lawyer?). It has nothing to do with the soldiers in the field, it’s a political problem that should be resolved.

Same goes with Harpers desired control of the Senate. By proroguing he of course killed a number of bills and has set up a situation that allows him to replace the chairmen in all sitting committees which of course can derail any more negative leaks about the government.

All in all, it was a cowardly act by an autocrat who can’t seem to handle the pressure, AND FOR THE RECORD, I voted Conservative in the last election and have regretted it ever since. I have the right to complain.

Complain if you must, but proroguing is legal. I do not like this latest prorogue one bit, but it is a parilmentary procedure, which is why there are Facebook protests vice court challanges.

[poquas]

Gunnair Gunnair:

poquas poquas:

Gunnair Gunnair:

Anyone who dislikes a policy or act of the government can vote it out next election without trying to rewrite the rules to satisfy everyone's latest bitch.

That's' democracy. One must wonder if all those screaming for change got off their colective holes and voted during the last election?

Stopping debate by proroguing is not democracy. I don’t like the ability of any PM to prorogue at a whim. Harper set a new low though as a minority government under the gun on a number of fronts. Then to dismiss the reaction that followed demonstrated an arrogance even I was surprised to see.

The Afghan detainee committee in particular should have been completed and I don’t care how far back you go. It appears that a number of key people in the government were caught lying and attempted to scapegoat a civil servant to hide from the consequences (and now they’ve cut of the payment to his lawyer?). It has nothing to do with the soldiers in the field, it’s a political problem that should be resolved.

Same goes with Harpers desired control of the Senate. By proroguing he of course killed a number of bills and has set up a situation that allows him to replace the chairmen in all sitting committees which of course can derail any more negative leaks about the government.

All in all, it was a cowardly act by an autocrat who can’t seem to handle the pressure, AND FOR THE RECORD, I voted Conservative in the last election and have regretted it ever since. I have the right to complain.

Complain if you must, but proroguing is legal. I do not like this latest prorogue one bit, but it is a parilmentary procedure, which is why there are Facebook protests vice court challanges.

The fact that it's legal doesn't mean it's right. The fact the other parties are willing to change it and make it a democratic decision in the future is appropriate. What's particularly galling is the fact that a minority government has pulled this crap twice to escape the heat they’ve created.

Wrong is wrong and it should be changed.

[romanP]

Gunnair Gunnair:

I have... twice. I do not advocate change for the sake of change. There is a procedure on place to deal with legal actions by the government that one does not like - it's called an election.

Protest isn't illegal. Democracy is much more than just voting. If democracy were just about voting, we might as well only do it once and never do it again. But no, our democracy is one of representation. Our politicians are elected to represent us, not to merely sit in Parliament and make up any laws they feel like making.

[Gunnair]

romanP romanP:

Gunnair Gunnair:

I have... twice. I do not advocate change for the sake of change. There is a procedure on place to deal with legal actions by the government that one does not like - it's called an election.

Protest isn't illegal. Democracy is much more than just voting. If democracy were just about voting, we might as well only do it once and never do it again. But no, our democracy is one of representation. Our politicians are elected to represent us, not to merely sit in Parliament and make up any laws they feel like making.

Don't think I suggested anywhere that protest was illegal.

Did you vote last time?

[OnTheIce]

Curtman Curtman:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

You are the master of dodge and weave.

Demand answers when you can deliver when the questions are posed to you.

How about you? Does the proposal look good?

• Require at least 10 days written notice from the Prime Minister of his intention to seek to prorogue, together with his specific reasons for doing so;

• Require the Prime Minister to bring the issue of prorogation before the House of Commons for a full debate;

• Prevent a request for prorogation within the first year after a Speech from the Throne, unless the House consents;

• Prevent a prorogation longer than one calendar month without the consent of the House;

• Prevent a request for prorogation if a matter of confidence has been scheduled in the House unless the House consents; and,

• Allow Parliamentary Committees to continue to function during the period when Parliament is prorogued until the start of the new session.

No, because I don't give a shit about prorogation. Honest to God, I don't care one bit. Never have, never will.

Secondly, this is the WORST example of hypocrisy in Canadian politics.

If this was really and truly an issue for Liberals and NDP alike, this would be been done DECADES ago.

This proposal has nothing, ZERO, to do with what's best for Canada/Democracy...whatever.

This is to SCORE POLITICAL POINTS and GAIN #'s IN THE POLLS.

Just call a spade a spade.

[Gunnair]

poquas poquas:

Gunnair Gunnair:

poquas poquas:

Stopping debate by proroguing is not democracy. I don’t like the ability of any PM to prorogue at a whim. Harper set a new low though as a minority government under the gun on a number of fronts. Then to dismiss the reaction that followed demonstrated an arrogance even I was surprised to see.

The Afghan detainee committee in particular should have been completed and I don’t care how far back you go. It appears that a number of key people in the government were caught lying and attempted to scapegoat a civil servant to hide from the consequences (and now they’ve cut of the payment to his lawyer?). It has nothing to do with the soldiers in the field, it’s a political problem that should be resolved.

Same goes with Harpers desired control of the Senate. By proroguing he of course killed a number of bills and has set up a situation that allows him to replace the chairmen in all sitting committees which of course can derail any more negative leaks about the government.

All in all, it was a cowardly act by an autocrat who can’t seem to handle the pressure, AND FOR THE RECORD, I voted Conservative in the last election and have regretted it ever since. I have the right to complain.

Complain if you must, but proroguing is legal. I do not like this latest prorogue one bit, but it is a parilmentary procedure, which is why there are Facebook protests vice court challanges.

The fact that it's legal doesn't mean it's right. The fact the other parties are willing to change it and make it a democratic decision in the future is appropriate. What's particularly galling is the fact that a minority government has pulled this crap twice to escape the heat they’ve created.

Wrong is wrong and it should be changed.

Fair enough. Have you always felt this way or only when Harper did it?

[poquas]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

This is to SCORE POLITICAL POINTS and GAIN #'s IN THE POLLS.

...and Harper handed it to the opposition on a silver platter. Not someone with a great plan in my opinion.

[EyeBrock]

I agree.

I pm'd curtman the following after we lowered our pistols at dawn.

$1:

Well,

Here's my take.

I think that to be viewed as a non-partisan motion, Liberals first need to accept that they were the chief users of this parliamentary procedure.

It's quite obvious to me that this is all from the crime bills that the Senate blocked and amended. Harper is going to do Senate reform with or without the Liberals on board. This prorogue is all about that battle.

Harper misjudged this one though and his antogonistic relations with the media have created a back-lash where the media has hammered away at this just because they don't like Harper.
It's an easy sound-bite/headline for the masses to devour and if he was a clever chap he would have seen this coming. He didn't.

That aside, I think having a free vote on a prorogue prior to the PM doing it isn't a bad idea at all. Parliament is more than just the ruling party and the PM.

[romanP]

Gunnair Gunnair:

romanP romanP:

Gunnair Gunnair:

I have... twice. I do not advocate change for the sake of change. There is a procedure on place to deal with legal actions by the government that one does not like - it's called an election.

Protest isn't illegal. Democracy is much more than just voting. If democracy were just about voting, we might as well only do it once and never do it again. But no, our democracy is one of representation. Our politicians are elected to represent us, not to merely sit in Parliament and make up any laws they feel like making.

Don't think I suggested anywhere that protest was illegal.

So what were you suggesting was illegal? There must be some reason you bolded the word "legal".

$1:

Did you vote last time?

I always vote. I also write to my MP. Writing to your MP is way more important than voting, and you don't have to wait for another election to do it.

[poquas]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Fair enough. Have you always felt this way or only when Harper did it?

I've always thought proroguing was wrong. Harper has just set a new low. I hated Chrétien more than most, but he had a majority and the damage was minimal. Harper’s rational was transparent and cowardly.

[Gunnair]

romanP romanP:

Gunnair Gunnair:

romanP romanP:

Protest isn't illegal. Democracy is much more than just voting. If democracy were just about voting, we might as well only do it once and never do it again. But no, our democracy is one of representation. Our politicians are elected to represent us, not to merely sit in Parliament and make up any laws they feel like making.

Don't think I suggested anywhere that protest was illegal.

So what were you suggesting was illegal? There must be some reason you bolded the word "legal".

$1:

Did you vote last time?

I always vote. I also write to my MP. Writing to your MP is way more important than voting, and you don't have to wait for another election to do it.

It's bolded because there is a suggestion in some of the tones that proroguing parliament is somehoe wrong - whether morally or procedually. I may have some moral issues with it, but it is proceduraly correct and legal.

[Gunnair]

poquas poquas:

Gunnair Gunnair:

Fair enough. Have you always felt this way or only when Harper did it?

I've always thought proroguing was wrong. Harper has just set a new low. I hated Chrétien more than most, but he had a majority and the damage was minimal. Harper’s rational was transparent and cowardly.

Well, I partly agree. I think Harper has made a big mistake with this one. I've said in other threads, I'm not impressed with the cessation of the Afghan detainee committee. I really wanted to see that sorted out.

[poquas]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Liberals first need to accept that they were the chief users of this parliamentary procedure.

That's ridiculous and more to the point water long under the bridge. This present prorogue is the issue and changing the ability of prorogue at a whim in the future.

Presenting a partisan stand that a former government must accept a wrist slapping for something that was wrong and done years ago is silly.

[Curtman]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Secondly, this is the WORST example of hypocrisy in Canadian politics.

If this was really and truly an issue for Liberals and NDP alike, this would be been done DECADES ago.

This proposal has nothing, ZERO, to do with what's best for Canada/Democracy...whatever.

This is to SCORE POLITICAL POINTS and GAIN #'s IN THE POLLS.

Just call a spade a spade.

Just to correct you again... The Liberals didn't care when the house prorogued. They ignored everyone on the CAPP page who emailed them until we hit about 60,000.. Those MPs that did talk to us were dismissive and pessimistic. We kept hounding them until they damn well would listen to us.

They wouldn't be proposing anything at all if we didn't give them a reason.