[desertdude]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

Been there several times(including Arab occupied Judea and Samaria) and have friends and family(in laws) there. Don't need an unsourced quote to know what the reality really is.

Honestly I would love to hear it what the thoughts are on the other side. AFAIK a lot of Israelis are also against these settlements and their expansion and clearly are against zionist idelogies.

Also do you know anybody who lives in Gaza or West Bank ?

[ShepherdsDog]

The settlers are thought of as shit disturbers by the overwhelming majority of Israelis(but you seem to think that they're seen as heroes...mainly because you know little, if anything of Israeli society). Been to Hebron Bethlehem(walked there from Jerusalem)as it's my city, and Jericho. Saw Gaza from a distance but close enough to see damage from their rockets. I've met several Arab Israelis and a handful of West Bank Jordanians(Nasrani).

[EyeBrock]

desertdude desertdude:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Bloody Dhimmis eh?

??? not very sharp today I see.

Why would I be? You don't need sharp to counter your obvious and immovable views old chap. It’s one of the few public opinions you disenfranchised Arabs are allowed to have.

[desertdude]

Again first of all I'm not arab. Imovable views like what ?

Think about it for second what is the biggest source of aggrivation in the region for decades ? The biggest reason by far until the recent wars for anti American/western sentiment ?

What does it all boil down to ?

I am more than willing to listen to as how that is not the case if your willing to explain.

[EyeBrock]

The biggest source of aggravation? Are the Jews not entitled to their historical homeland? I think they are.

It might be a source of irritation but the Arab nations don't allow freedom of expression, democracy or freedom of speech, so how do we really know what public sentiment is? That includes Dubai and the UAE.

All I see from the Arab world is a barrage of hatred which predates Islam.

Sure there was anti-Semitism in Europe but the Arabs and other Muslims have taken this to another level since the Holocaust. Israel has fought numerous wars just to remain alive.

It’s like you guys just hate Jews and its very disconcerting. I haven't seen any evidence from your posts that you are willing to let Israel be. I don't see Israel threatening Dubai or your way of life, why do you hate them so?

[andyt]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

The biggest source of aggravation? Are the Jews not entitled to their historical homeland? I think they are.

I don't. Not in the sense that because their ancestors at one time lived there they can just march in. That doesn't mean the state of Israel shouldn't exist, but to keep taking more and more land because of some way late historical claim is bs. By the same token all non-natives should move out of BC, since it's subject to more than 100% land claims, and those claims are a lot more recent than the Jews'.

[desertdude]

Israel was created by the guilt and not knowing with what do with the jews after WW2. Anyways its there now and is a recognised country, no two ways about it. Its there, its exists and anyone has a problem with thats tough luck.

But it does not give them a right to keep on land grabbing. They already launched a "pre emptive" war and grabbed more land in 67 from Lebanon and Jordan. And continues to do so with more setllements.

And this is very flawed logic that its their historical land. If that is the case the white man has no right to be in North and South America aswell as South Africa. How far do you want to go back in history to see who has claim over what land ?

[Lemmy]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

The biggest source of aggravation? Are the Jews not entitled to their historical homeland? I think they are.

How far back in time do we go to find "historical homeland"? Before present-day Israel, the Jewish homeland was Egypt. Before that it was present-day Iraq. For the Jews that actaully settled Israel, their historical homeland was, for the most part, New York City.

[PluggyRug]

Lemmy Lemmy:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

The biggest source of aggravation? Are the Jews not entitled to their historical homeland? I think they are.

How far back in time do we go to find "historical homeland"? Before present-day Israel, the Jewish homeland was Egypt. Before that it was present-day Iraq. For the Jews that actaully settled Israel, their historical homeland was, for the most part, New York City.

You could probably say something similar about the Palestinians.

[Lemmy]

PluggyRug PluggyRug:

You could probably say something similar about the Palestinians.

Sure I could, but I prefer to be truthful.

[Proculation]

A Palestinian sympathizer hating Jews and who is for the anti-democratic and hateful Muslims. You fit the portrait desertdude. It's almost a cliché.

[EyeBrock]

Lemmy Lemmy:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

The biggest source of aggravation? Are the Jews not entitled to their historical homeland? I think they are.

How far back in time do we go to find "historical homeland"? Before present-day Israel, the Jewish homeland was Egypt. Before that it was present-day Iraq. For the Jews that actaully settled Israel, their historical homeland was, for the most part, New York City.

Well, it goes back to the Balfour Declaration (1917), the League of Nations mandates and the UN mandates. All agreed that the Jews had a decent case for a Jewish homeland of various types. That's pretty recent stuff by ME standards.

[Lemmy]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Well, it goes back to the Balfour Declaration (1917), the League of Nations mandates and the UN mandates. All agreed that the Jews had a decent case for a Jewish homeland of various types. That's pretty recent stuff by ME standards.

I don't disagree that the Jews ought to be allowed their own homeland. I believe ANY group of like-minded people ought to be able to form their own country, provided they exist by the general rules of international convention. But the decision to carve that homeland out of Palestine was an ABSOLUTE error, in retrospect. They should have made Israel out of Arizona instead.

[andyt]

Nope, they should have made it East Prussia, what is now Russia.

But Brock, nobody is denying Israel's right to exist, even DD. What we're talking about here is Israel's (non) right to expand.

[EyeBrock]

I don't think the settlement thing is a good idea either.