[hurley_108]

ASLplease ASLplease:

ofcourse, the million or so legit gun owners still havent gone out and murder anyone so not of this fancy report impresses me.

with ownership comes responsibility, doesn't seem like anyone is talking about accountability for the criminal, just take away firearms from the alberta duck hunter and their plans are complete

Something something something Dark Side. Something something something complete.

[FieryVulpine]

bootlegga bootlegga:

And the car registry your province/territory runs will not protect you from getting run over by a stolen car either. Yet I don't hear anyone hear bitching about having to register their car...

Talk about distorting the facts...

I have only one response to this: lulz.

[DrCaleb]

bootlegga bootlegga:

In all fairness, there are some decidedly non-partisan folks here who don't think the registry should exist (Dr. Caleb comes to mind).

While I never would have supported it had I known that it was going to cost $2 billion to get up and running, with the very minimal costs (under $4 million annually) is incurs these days, I don't see a problem with keeping it if police forces around the country find it useful. Depending on who you talk to, they either do (chiefs of police across the country) or they don't (Constable Kuntz' buddies).

I think this report shows that it is fairly effective.

I can only assume you have not been paying attention. I dislike the 'registry' because it does nothing for public safety, and because it made doing nothing a crime.

I have nothing against registering my guns, because I actually bought them with legal permits. Being forced to register on penalty of jail with no reciprocal punishment for gun smuggling is what I have a problem with. If responsible gun owners are to be made to comply, there should be an equal push to rid the streets of illegal guns that will never be registered, and harsher penalties for possessing illegally obtained (smuggled) guns. To the same dollar value as the registry cost.

I resent my tax dollars going to fund yet another politically funded boondoggle for CGI.

[FieryVulpine]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I have nothing against registering my guns, because I actually bought them with legal permits. Being forced to register on penalty of jail with no reciprocal punishment for gun smuggling is what I have a problem with. If responsible gun owners are to be made to comply, there should be an equal push to rid the streets of illegal guns that will never be registered, and harsher penalties for possessing illegally obtained (smuggled) guns. To the same dollar value as the registry cost.

I resent my tax dollars going to fund yet another politically funded boondoggle for CGI.

That's what I keep asking myself: "Could that two billion have been better spent on keep smuggled weapons off the street?"

[RUEZ]

bootlegga bootlegga:

And the car registry your province/territory runs will not protect you from getting run over by a stolen car either. Yet I don't hear anyone hear bitching about having to register their car...

Talk about distorting the facts...

I'm not forced to register my car.

[martin14]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

bootlegga bootlegga:

In all fairness, there are some decidedly non-partisan folks here who don't think the registry should exist (Dr. Caleb comes to mind).

While I never would have supported it had I known that it was going to cost $2 billion to get up and running, with the very minimal costs (under $4 million annually) is incurs these days, I don't see a problem with keeping it if police forces around the country find it useful. Depending on who you talk to, they either do (chiefs of police across the country) or they don't (Constable Kuntz' buddies).

I think this report shows that it is fairly effective.

I can only assume you have not been paying attention. I dislike the 'registry' because it does nothing for public safety, and because it made doing nothing a crime.

I have nothing against registering my guns, because I actually bought them with legal permits. Being forced to register on penalty of jail with no reciprocal punishment for gun smuggling is what I have a problem with. If responsible gun owners are to be made to comply, there should be an equal push to rid the streets of illegal guns that will never be registered, and harsher penalties for possessing illegally obtained (smuggled) guns. To the same dollar value as the registry cost.

I resent my tax dollars going to fund yet another politically funded boondoggle for CGI.

[andyt]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I can only assume you have not been paying attention. I dislike the 'registry' because it does nothing for public safety, and because it made doing nothing a crime.

I have nothing against registering my guns, because I actually bought them with legal permits. Being forced to register on penalty of jail with no reciprocal punishment for gun smuggling is what I have a problem with. If responsible gun owners are to be made to comply, there should be an equal push to rid the streets of illegal guns that will never be registered, and harsher penalties for possessing illegally obtained (smuggled) guns. To the same dollar value as the registry cost.

I resent my tax dollars going to fund yet another politically funded boondoggle for CGI.

I agee that a far greater concern is illegal guns - put the focus on them. But that's no reason to scrap the registry after the money has been spent. Yes it sound like the Liberals wasted a lot of money, but that money is gone. It seems like the greater waste now to scrap the registry and lose any benefits it has. That's like wasting the 2 billion all over again. Maybe that's Harper's way of being green - rewasting, the fourth R.

[DrCaleb]

andyt andyt:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I can only assume you have not been paying attention. I dislike the 'registry' because it does nothing for public safety, and because it made doing nothing a crime.

I have nothing against registering my guns, because I actually bought them with legal permits. Being forced to register on penalty of jail with no reciprocal punishment for gun smuggling is what I have a problem with. If responsible gun owners are to be made to comply, there should be an equal push to rid the streets of illegal guns that will never be registered, and harsher penalties for possessing illegally obtained (smuggled) guns. To the same dollar value as the registry cost.

I resent my tax dollars going to fund yet another politically funded boondoggle for CGI.

I agee that a far greater concern is illegal guns - put the focus on them. But that's no reason to scrap the registry after the money has been spent. Yes it sound like the Liberals wasted a lot of money, but that money is gone. It seems like the greater waste now to scrap the registry and lose any benefits it has. That's like wasting the 2 billion all over again. Maybe that's Harper's way of being green - rewasting, the fourth R.

It does not follow to say the money is spent, therefore there is no point in scrapping the registry. The two are not interdependent.

The legislation that created the registry is the legislation that makes doing nothing illegal. The registry must be scrapped so that millions of legal gun owners who did nothing are no longer criminals. That the registry has to be scrapped for that end is the price.

No one says the registry as it is (it's people, resources, infrastructure) cannot be moved to another department or whatever under some other legislation, but bill C-68 must be made null and void.

[ASLplease]

bootlegga bootlegga:

ASLplease ASLplease:

ofcourse, the million or so legit gun owners still havent gone out and murder anyone so not of this fancy report impresses me.

with ownership comes responsibility, doesn't seem like anyone is talking about accountability for the criminal, just take away firearms from the alberta duck hunter and their plans are complete

Ahhh, they we go again with the fear mongering that the registry will take everyone's guns away...

ofcourse not. registries dont take guns away from criminals. it takes a police officer to do that.

[andyt]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

It does not follow to say the money is spent, therefore there is no point in scrapping the registry. The two are not interdependent.

The legislation that created the registry is the legislation that makes doing nothing illegal. The registry must be scrapped so that millions of legal gun owners who did nothing are no longer criminals. That the registry has to be scrapped for that end is the price.

No one says the registry as it is (it's people, resources, infrastructure) cannot be moved to another department or whatever under some other legislation, but bill C-68 must be made null and void.

I don't follow you here. You seem to vacillate between being against the registry because of the wasted money and because it's an infringement of civil rights. (As all laws are - it's a matter of balance.) The first is dealt with - the money's been spent.

The second, civil rights argument is countered by the RCMP report that there is value to the registry. Ie the good of it outweighs the harm to civil rights. But I could see your point about it if you didn't write the last part. How will moving the registry to another department be any different? Won't doing nothing still be illegal?

[bootlegga]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

bootlegga bootlegga:

In all fairness, there are some decidedly non-partisan folks here who don't think the registry should exist (Dr. Caleb comes to mind).

While I never would have supported it had I known that it was going to cost $2 billion to get up and running, with the very minimal costs (under $4 million annually) is incurs these days, I don't see a problem with keeping it if police forces around the country find it useful. Depending on who you talk to, they either do (chiefs of police across the country) or they don't (Constable Kuntz' buddies).

I think this report shows that it is fairly effective.

I can only assume you have not been paying attention. I dislike the 'registry' because it does nothing for public safety, and because it made doing nothing a crime.

I have nothing against registering my guns, because I actually bought them with legal permits. Being forced to register on penalty of jail with no reciprocal punishment for gun smuggling is what I have a problem with. If responsible gun owners are to be made to comply, there should be an equal push to rid the streets of illegal guns that will never be registered, and harsher penalties for possessing illegally obtained (smuggled) guns. To the same dollar value as the registry cost.

I resent my tax dollars going to fund yet another politically funded boondoggle for CGI.

Hey, all I said about you was that you are a non-partisan member of CKA. If you want me to revise that statement, then I'll do so.

The rest of the above statement refers to my personal opinion, which is denoted by the repeated use of "I", not he. Pronoun troubles...

[DrCaleb]

andyt andyt:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

It does not follow to say the money is spent, therefore there is no point in scrapping the registry. The two are not interdependent.

The legislation that created the registry is the legislation that makes doing nothing illegal. The registry must be scrapped so that millions of legal gun owners who did nothing are no longer criminals. That the registry has to be scrapped for that end is the price.

No one says the registry as it is (it's people, resources, infrastructure) cannot be moved to another department or whatever under some other legislation, but bill C-68 must be made null and void.

I don't follow you here. You seem to vacillate between being against the registry because of the wasted money and because it's an infringement of civil rights. (As all laws are - it's a matter of balance.) The first is dealt with - the money's been spent.

I am against the registry because (in no particular order):
1) It would not/does not/can not do what we were told it was meant to do - make people safer from gun crimes such as were committed by Marc Lepine. That is how it all started, after all.
2) It cost more than the GDP of Elbonia, and could have been done far easier and cheaper by people actually competent at their jobs.
3) It made me a criminal for doing nothing at all.

andyt andyt:

The second, civil rights argument is countered by the RCMP report that there is value to the registry. Ie the good of it outweighs the harm to civil rights. But I could see your point about it if you didn't write the last part. How will moving the registry to another department be any different? Won't doing nothing still be illegal?

You'll forgive me if I ignore a 'civil rights trump public safety' argument from the RCMP. It's a non-sequiter for those of us unwilling to give up any of our rights; I don't care if my rights make you less safe. They are mine, and I intend to keep every one. Sorry, it may be cold, but it's the way I'm wired.

The money has indeed been spent, but Bill C-68 created the registry and made it a crime not to register. They are one in the same. To repeal the crime of not registering, you must also repeal Bill C-68 that created the registry.

Since the money has already been spent on infrastructure and software, it seems like a waste to mothball it. The new legislation keeping the old 'registry' running does not have to include a provision that not registering is a crime. It can also include harsher penalties for gun smuggling, like the creation of a penal colony for gun runners on Byam Martin Island.

bootlegga bootlegga:

Hey, all I said about you was that you are a non-partisan member of CKA. If you want me to revise that statement, then I'll do so.

The rest of the above statement refers to my personal opinion, which is denoted by the repeated use of "I", not he. Pronoun troubles...

No worries man. I try to be a non-party member, but I don't think the registry shouldn't exist. I just think it needs to be voluntary.

[andyt]

All in agreement about coming down on illegal guns - as I've said in this thread, I'd trade the registry any day for that.

Are you proposing a voluntary registry? Sorta like the voluntary census? I don't see the point of that.

The civil rights vs public safety argument is ongoing. Bet I could find plenty of instances where you come down on public safety.

Being against the registry because it cost too much to set up is idiotic. It's like selling your car at a loss because you decided you paid too much for it.

[hurley_108]

DrCaleb, do you really see this government keeping the records of the guns that have been registered? I'd be very surprised if within a month of this bill's passage all the records weren't destroyed.

[EyeBrock]

I think it was a huge waste of cash intially because it was handled so badly. That said, the cash has been spent.

It is of use, if we can keep costs reasonable we should keep it.