[bootlegga]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Japan makes me nervous. It seems the country's male popualtion is obsessed with animated movies depictiung the rape of young round-eye girls. That and they don't seem to have a lot of self-control in war. Thye seem to have a thing about taking it out on the women adn children when they've conquered a place.

Wish I could go there one day. I'm interested in what makes that place tick.

You're not the only one. IMHO Japan is a US ally mainly to prevent them from becoming a major power again (in US eyes anyways), just like the way the Americans suddenly embraced the People's Republic of China in the 70s as another counterweight to the Soviets.

In the past century, they have fought in both world wars and were quite nasty both on and off the battlefield, although many now claim Japan is pacifist due to the horrors inflicted on it during WW2. Me, I'm not so sure, given the size and quality of their 'Self-Defence Forces' and the political power/influence the nationalistic, right wing there has. If they ever elected a guy like the mayor of Tokyo - Shintaro Ishihara, as PM, the world could really be in for a surprise.

Japan was an interesting place to live and work, and from this North American's POV, a land of opposites. When I expected people to do 'A', they turned the tables on me and did 'B' instead. It's not wrong, just very, very different.

[CommanderSock]

The world is very cautious about Japan. Nobody is sleeping on Japan's ability to cause harm to its neighbors if its military beast were unleashed.

The Japanese leadership has shown very xenophobic tendencies not just in the past, but also the present. Japan remains one of the most xenophobic societies today. Many of their leaders are unapologetic of the horrors committed during the Japan – China war.

The current mayor of Tokyo has repeatedly used racial slurs to refer to other Asians, and is a denier of the Nankin Rape/Massacre.

This country should never be allowed to wield a powerful military. If Japan ever pulls what it tried in WW2, this time punishment won't be American occupation.

[BartSimpson]

What if Japan wins next time?

[CommanderSock]

They won't. They'll be exterminated by nuclear weapons. The Chinese won't think twice to pull the nuclear trigger.

If they happen to be on the side of the Chinese, and are thinking of conquering new lands together, well, we're probably all screwed.

[BartSimpson]

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

They won't. They'll be exterminated by nuclear weapons. The Chinese won't think twice to pull the nuclear trigger.

If they happen to be on the side of the Chinese, and are thinking of conquering new lands together, well, we're probably all screwed.

Japan's recently retired PM stated that they are only six months away from having nuclear weapons if they need them. For those unfamiliar with the nuances of Japanese culture this is the polite and subtle way of Japan to say that in six months they'd be happy to tell you about the nuclear weapons they already have.

The other indication of Japan having functioning nuclear weapons is their growing intolerance of Chinese warships in Japanese waters. The Japanese simply do not register complaints with their superiors, it's a cultural thing you see. So when they start to complain about something it's because they know they can kick your a** if they have to.

[CommanderSock]

Japan won't be allowed to fight another war. They have a heavy reliance on imported food and materials. A trade embargo would bring famine to its civilian population, and grind it's industrial machine to a halt, effectively shutting down an export based economy.

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/ ... 226i1.html , Japan imports its food from China. Just remember China can turn off the tap.

Why would Japan risk it? For pride? To show off?

China will never be conquered; 1.3 billion people aren't easy to overcome. It's a fool's folly.

Even if they did...

It's the snake and the elephant story. A snake eats the baby elephant, a creature much larger than itself, only to choke and die later.

In history, when small nations/groups/empires annex large ones, they themselves are culturally absorbed, or worse destroyed. At best, the colonized country will break off sooner and hold a grudge.

British India (different Raj’s removed from power only to become united against the British), Apartheid RSA (Xulu Empire's destruction, led to the destruction of the white state 100 years later), Latin America today, happening before our eyes. It is being eaten from inside by its indigenous Indian (Bolivia, Colombia, Venezuela etc).

Again, Japan? Going to war would be incredibly foolish. And it would almost certainly end in one disaster or another. And if the Japanese don’t like foreigners, then they need to keep their distance for everyone’s good.

[BartSimpson]

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

Japan won't be allowed to fight another war. They have a heavy reliance on imported food and materials. A trade embargo would bring famine to its civilian population, and grind it's industrial machine to a halt, effectively shutting down an export based economy.

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/ ... 226i1.html , Japan imports its food from China. Just remember China can turn off the tap.

Why would Japan risk it? For pride? To show off?

Or to defend itself.

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

China will never be conquered; 1.3 billion people aren't easy to overcome. It's a fool's folly.

Conquest is not necessarily the purpose of war with the Japanese. When they attacked the USA in 1941 they were not looking to conquer the USA or even to cripple it. They went to war to obtain raw materials for their nation and to establish their empire in the western Pacific. If Japan attacks China the Japanese are smart enough to let China make the first move so that any actions then taken by Japan will appear to the world as purely defensive.

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

Even if they did...

It's the snake and the elephant story. A snake eats the baby elephant, a creature much larger than itself, only to choke and die later.

In history, when small nations/groups/empires annex large ones, they themselves are culturally absorbed, or worse destroyed. At best, the colonized country will break off sooner and hold a grudge.

British India (different Raj’s removed from power only to become united against the British), Apartheid RSA (Xulu Empire's destruction, led to the destruction of the white state 100 years later), Latin America today, happening before our eyes. It is being eaten from inside by its indigenous Indian (Bolivia, Colombia, Venezuela etc).

Again, Japan? Going to war would be incredibly foolish. And it would almost certainly end in one disaster or another. And if the Japanese don’t like foreigners, then they need to keep their distance for everyone’s good.

Japan is not the aggressor here, China is.

[Zipperfish]

bootlegga bootlegga:

It's not wrong, just very, very different.

Different, eh? All the more reason it must be destroyed.

[CommanderSock]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

Japan won't be allowed to fight another war. They have a heavy reliance on imported food and materials. A trade embargo would bring famine to its civilian population, and grind it's industrial machine to a halt, effectively shutting down an export based economy.

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/ ... 226i1.html , Japan imports its food from China. Just remember China can turn off the tap.

Why would Japan risk it? For pride? To show off?

Or to defend itself.

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

China will never be conquered; 1.3 billion people aren't easy to overcome. It's a fool's folly.

Conquest is not necessarily the purpose of war with the Japanese. When they attacked the USA in 1941 they were not looking to conquer the USA or even to cripple it. They went to war to obtain raw materials for their nation and to establish their empire in the western Pacific. If Japan attacks China the Japanese are smart enough to let China make the first move so that any actions then taken by Japan will appear to the world as purely defensive.

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

Even if they did...

It's the snake and the elephant story. A snake eats the baby elephant, a creature much larger than itself, only to choke and die later.

In history, when small nations/groups/empires annex large ones, they themselves are culturally absorbed, or worse destroyed. At best, the colonized country will break off sooner and hold a grudge.

British India (different Raj’s removed from power only to become united against the British), Apartheid RSA (Xulu Empire's destruction, led to the destruction of the white state 100 years later), Latin America today, happening before our eyes. It is being eaten from inside by its indigenous Indian (Bolivia, Colombia, Venezuela etc).

Again, Japan? Going to war would be incredibly foolish. And it would almost certainly end in one disaster or another. And if the Japanese don’t like foreigners, then they need to keep their distance for everyone’s good.

Japan is not the aggressor here, China is.

I just don't see how China will gain anything by attempting to annex a small, overpopulated island with a people whose culture is vastly different than that of theirs.

And vice versa, Japan has nothing to gain by attacking a vastly bigger country that supplies it with resources.

They can thump their chests and posture all they want, the bottom line is that economic co-operation between these two is the future, not a military engagement.

[EyeBrock]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Japan makes me nervous. It seems the country's male popualtion is obsessed with animated movies depictiung the rape of young round-eye girls. That and they don't seem to have a lot of self-control in war. Thye seem to have a thing about taking it out on the women adn children when they've conquered a place.

Wish I could go there one day. I'm interested in what makes that place tick.

And the Chinese make you sleep well at night?

Both make me nervous.

[BartSimpson]

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

I just don't see how China will gain anything by attempting to annex a small, overpopulated island with a people whose culture is vastly different than that of theirs.

China doesn't seek to annex Japan, they just want Japan to bow down before them is all. Look up 'Middle Kingdom complex' for more on that.

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

And vice versa, Japan has nothing to gain by attacking a vastly bigger country that supplies it with resources.

They can thump their chests and posture all they want, the bottom line is that economic co-operation between these two is the future, not a military engagement.

You're speaking in Western terms.

Japan and China have been enemies for longer than the West has had an alphabet. To imagine that their deep seated ancestral animosities will be resolved because of trade issues is to ignore the fact that outside of the West most cultures view history as a living, ever-present thing and the events of 1,000 years ago are as relevant to them as what happened yesterday.

The Chinese are pressing the Japanese as payback for the Japanese occupation of China in the last century and the Chinese Navy guys are probably also trying to make up for their ancestral failures against Japan as far back as 1281 AD.

The Japanese, on the other hand, find themselves to be the cultural and intellectual superiors of all of Asia and it really tweaks them when ignorant peasants like the Chinese have the utter gall to stand up to their superiors.

The net result is that the two cultures have a collective hostility to each other that is very difficult to bridge. That they are mutual trading partners is not relevant to the discussion becuase both sides see these things as an exercise of interests and not as an exercise of trade-based diplomacy. They are civil to each other for now and that's the best we can hope for as a status quo.

But if China wants to control 20% of the Arctic they will have to be able to get their ships to the Arctic via the fastest route possible and that is via Japanese territorial waters. That means China has to intimidate Japan. For the Japanese that means losing face to inferiors and that is not going to happen.

In short, it's interesting to watch.

[ShepherdsDog]

It's the Middle Kingdom Syndrome that drives them to make these ludicrous claims that they are owed this or that, or that this piece of land or ocean belongs to them. In Mandarin, China means Middle Kingdom...Jhong Gwo. It is the obligation of the world, in their opinion, to recognize this 'fact'.

One consolation is that throughout their history they've always fought amongst themselves, allowing smaller, albeit more sophisticated nations to dominate them. Events over the past 100 years, a short time to the Chinese, demonstrates that these cultural divides still exist, in their supposedly harmonious society. They're only tough when they can bully smaller and weaker people, to those they consider to be stronger, they are obsequious.

[EyeBrock]

That is good shit Shep. I've read a lot of books on this subject and that was so well summed up.

[Dragom]

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

I just don't see how China will gain anything by attempting to annex a small, overpopulated island with a people whose culture is vastly different than that of theirs.

And vice versa, Japan has nothing to gain by attacking a vastly bigger country that supplies it with resources.

They can thump their chests and posture all they want, the bottom line is that economic co-operation between these two is the future, not a military engagement.

The future points to peace but the past points to war.

Don't deny their long standing hatred and the fact that both countries have stuff to prove on the global stage.

[ShepherdsDog]

$1:

Japan's recently retired PM stated that they are only six months away from having nuclear weapons if they need them.

In other words, they could have them attached to missiles on their way to Beijing and Shanghai in a matter of hours or minutes if need be. Japan is the one of, if not the most most technologically advanced societies on the planet. How long do you think it would take before they retooled their factories and shipyards to war time production? Right now a nuclear strike against Japan would bring about an immediate American counter strike, if not Russian as well. So I'll bet you dollars to dounuts that when or if the Americans are told/asked to leave, Japan will be nuclear armed and ready....besides, they have Ultraman and Godzirra.