[martin14]

andyt andyt:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Yes I am on about the nanny state. I see it as an modern trend. These notions that (a) the government must keep us safe, even if it safe from ourselves (and the insidious corollary of that being that voluntary personal risk is unacceptable) and (b) that we have some constitutional right not be inconvenienced by the actions of others.

The government, of course, is always more than willing to step up to the plate and create new laws, new regulations, new bureaucracies and new taxes.

There's just too mnay folks out there right now who disapprove of much and are active in trying to get their disapproval codified into law.

Maybe so, but this is about keeping society civil. It's the same as a noise bylaw for loud parties etc, no lawnmowers at certain hours, etc. Do you really think those are a bad idea? You have no problem with gratuitous noise?

Then please explain to me why this law is only against bikes,

and not ASL's list of other gratuitous noises ?


And then why the current noise bylaws which cover parties and such dont work now ?

[andyt]

IT all adds to noise pollution, and it aint just one guy on a Harley - there's lots of them. Noise is very harmful, but we've got the point where we think it's normal. As I said, go to the backcountry and see what quiet is really like - it's wonderful. We can't make a city as quiet as the backcountry, but every little bit helps.

[BartSimpson]

The law is against the motorcyles principally because noise is not a required element of using a motorcyle. BMW has made very quiet motorcyles for decades while Harley Davidson actually patented and trademarked the tonal qualities and volume of their motorcycles. You do not need to make noise to enjoy using a motorcycle.

Many cities have omnibus noise ordinances that cover all non-vehicular noise and they limit the decibel range and frequency and they also allow variances based on reasonable circumstances. Like in my neighborhood a pile driver was allowed a permit for the construction of a public school. A helicopter can get a permit to put an AC unit on the roof of a business or home. But the permit makes sure that such variances don't take place at 3am when most people are trying to sleep.

But there's no such limitation on a needlessly loud motorcycle roaring through the neighborhood at 3am and leaving a wake of bleating car alarms in its path.

[Zipperfish]

andyt andyt:

IT all adds to noise pollution, and it aint just one guy on a Harley - there's lots of them. Noise is very harmful, but we've got the point where we think it's normal. As I said, go to the backcountry and see what quiet is really like - it's wonderful. We can't make a city as quiet as the backcountry, but every little bit helps.

I don't think noise is that harmful. Nor do I agree that we should pass laws until silence is mandatory.

Bring on the nanny state.

[andyt]

martin14 martin14:

Then please explain to me why this law is only against bikes,

and not ASL's list of other gratuitous noises ?


And then why the current noise bylaws which cover parties and such dont work now ?

Because they draw most attention to themselves - I rarely hear another vehicle that makes as much noise. But I agree with ASL, the law should cover all vehicles - we have the technology.

I don't know why current noise bylaws don't work now - probably as the article says, they weren't set up to measure bikes before.

[andyt]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Bring on the nanny state.

Right Arm, man.

[Zipperfish]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

But there's no such limitation on a needlessly loud motorcycle roaring through the neighborhood at 3am and leaving a wake of bleating car alarms in its path.

It doesn't happen that often, and when it does I'm asleep again 30 seconds later.

[bootlegga]

martin14 martin14:

Then please explain to me why this law is only against bikes,

and not ASL's list of other gratuitous noises ?


And then why the current noise bylaws which cover parties and such dont work now ?

Because as my link said, they don't have the equipment or technical specs to draft a law that is enforceable. It's coming, it's just a matter of time before everyone who's vehicle exceeds certain noise levels will be ticketed.

In one of the articles I read in one of the local papers the police officer interviewed actually said he expected someone on a sport bikes (not a Harley) to get the first ticket.

[Public_Domain]

[bootlegga]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

But there's no such limitation on a needlessly loud motorcycle roaring through the neighborhood at 3am and leaving a wake of bleating car alarms in its path.

It doesn't happen that often, and when it does I'm asleep again 30 seconds later.

Maybe where you live it doesn't happen very often, but anyone who lives near some of the prime 'cruising' areas in Edmonton, like near Jasper Ave or Whyte Ave, hears them practically 24/7.

I once made the mistake of buying a condo near a busy intersection in Edmonton about a decade ago (which I never realized at the time) and paid for it with three summers of sleepless nights, as semis drove by with their retarder brakes on, people screamed up and down in sports cars or motorcycles, etc. all night long. Your choice was either keep your windows closed and sweat to death or keep them open and go deaf. I made damned sure when I bought my home last fall that that wasn't the case there.

You might think it's wrong to legislate good manners, but I see it as the only way people might actually give a damn. Besides, this law is like speeding, if you don't want a ticket, then don't break the law - don't modify your bike (or car in a 5-6 years).

And yeah, you might fall right back asleep, but the newborn doesn't always and then you're awake for an hour or so trying to get her back to sleep.

[Zipperfish]

bootlegga bootlegga:

Maybe where you live it doesn't happen very often, but anyone who lives near some of the prime 'cruising' areas in Edmonton, like near Jasper Ave or Whyte Ave, hears them practically 24/7.

I once made the mistake of buying a condo near a busy intersection in Edmonton about a decade ago (which I never realized at the time) and paid for it with three summers of sleepless nights, as semis drove by with their retarder brakes on, people screamed up and down in sports cars or motorcycles, etc. all night long. Your choice was either keep your windows closed and sweat to death or keep them open and go deaf. I made damned sure when I bought my home last fall that that wasn't the case there.

You might think it's wrong to legislate good manners, but I see it as the only way people might actually give a damn. Besides, this law is like speeding, if you don't want a ticket, then don't break the law - don't modify your bike (or car in a 5-6 years).

And yeah, you might fall right back asleep, but the newborn doesn't always and then you're awake for an hour or so trying to get her back to sleep.

Well, respectfully, I disagree, and it's probably due to a fundamental difference in philosophy. I'm just not a fan of the nanny state, and I'll speak out about it every chance I get.

[BartSimpson]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

But there's no such limitation on a needlessly loud motorcycle roaring through the neighborhood at 3am and leaving a wake of bleating car alarms in its path.

It doesn't happen that often, and when it does I'm asleep again 30 seconds later.

When it happens for me I'm up and looking for my subsonic ammo.

[Robair]

Good stuff, take it nationwide. I should be able to drive around with my window down and not have to suffer tinnitus.

F*%&$^ idiots that crack the throttle waiting at the light just to hear themselves. All the while their pipes are pointed at the open windows behind them. Makes you want to catch up and give 'em a little squeeze with the ol' F-150.

[Richard]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

The law is against the motorcyles principally because noise is not a required element of using a motorcyle. BMW has made very quiet motorcyles for decades while Harley Davidson actually patented and trademarked the tonal qualities and volume of their motorcycles. You do not need to make noise to enjoy using a motorcycle.

Many cities have omnibus noise ordinances that cover all non-vehicular noise and they limit the decibel range and frequency and they also allow variances based on reasonable circumstances. Like in my neighborhood a pile driver was allowed a permit for the construction of a public school. A helicopter can get a permit to put an AC unit on the roof of a business or home. But the permit makes sure that such variances don't take place at 3am when most people are trying to sleep.

But there's no such limitation on a needlessly loud motorcycle roaring through the neighborhood at 3am and leaving a wake of bleating car alarms in its path.

Then the job should be to go after that offender at 3 am not the guy that has pipes on his bike to warn knuckle heads in cars that their is a bike in the lane they were turning into.

[CanadianJeff]

You know I thought the far more logical step would be to first start fining those idiots who have to put 10000 bucks of speakers in their cars and crank em up to the max at 3 in the morning.

I'm seriously tired of these idiots having their music so loud you can hear them coming from blocks away while sitting in your living room. It's very inconsiderate and it should be illegal at night while everyone is trying to sleep.