[CommanderSock]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

It's my opinion. Refute it with some well founded evidence.

The Soviets were far from free, but under tyrannical rule, they were very innovative. Now they are free, and not so innovative.

Japan is free but they are not nearly as innovative as the USA or Russia.

IMO education and culture have more to do with innovation than political freedom.

China is certainly doing well for itself. We may laugh now but tomorrow it may they that laugh...

[EyeBrock]

The Soviets were innovative to a degree but their equipment was very basic and generally of low quality compared to NATO equivalents. Step on a C130 and then an An12, or ride in a T74 MBT or a Challenger/Leopard/Abrams, you’ll see for yourself.

Japan not as innovative as Russia? Really? Come on. Are you driving a Russian car or taking pictures with your Russian DSLR?

Education and culture in a free society blossom. It's not just those things but the social justice, freedom of speech, accountable judiciary, the rule of law etc that differentiate between our civilisations and those in oppressive/corrupt/despotic regimes.

Free thought can only really be nurtured to its pinnacle in a free society.

The Chinese and Russians will hopefully gain real freedom one day. Until then I won’t be licking any Chinese knock-off's of Sukhov 33’s.

I'm not laughing at the Chinese. I spent many months in Hong Kong and I have a healthy respect for the Chinese, but they 'aint free, yet.

[sandorski]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

It's my opinion. Refute it with some well founded evidence.

it's wrong

[2Cdo]

sandorski sandorski:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

It's my opinion. Refute it with some well founded evidence.

it's wrong

Well there you have it folks, irrefutable evidence, from the poster who enlightens us with the single word "Fail" whenever he doesn't have a point or a clue.

[sandorski]

2Cdo 2Cdo:

sandorski sandorski:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

It's my opinion. Refute it with some well founded evidence.

it's wrong

Well there you have it folks, irrefutable evidence, from the poster who enlightens us with the single word "Fail" whenever he doesn't have a point or a clue.

Yup, there's hope for you yet. It's myopic because it makes a claim of Fact where no Fact or supporting evidence is offered. His statement was merely a statement of Faith in a Mythical "Freedom". Fact is, Knowledge simply exists in vast quantity and just waits there until someone Discovers it. That Discovery does not occur due to "Freedom", it occurs due to proper Process and Logic. Neither of those things require "Freedom".

His "opinion", which wasn't btw, is wrong. Just a piece of Bumper Sticker "wisdom" people repeat to themselves for a bit of comfort.

[EyeBrock]

Ever been to China Sand?

[BartSimpson]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Education and culture in a free society blossom. It's not just those things but the social justice, freedom of speech, accountable judiciary, the rule of law etc that differentiate between our civilisations and those in oppressive/corrupt/despotic regimes.

Free thought can only really be nurtured to its pinnacle in a free society.

Good post. +1.

The cultural issues in Japan that held them back for so long have unravelled in the past 60 years and true innovation is now taking place in a land where inventors were once considered insufferably rude.

In China the cultural problem is that it is still important over there for individuals to 'know their place' in society and the cultural and economic upheaval of the past 20 years has started the undoing of six hundred years of Chinese tradition. In the new world the Chinese farmer's son can be a network engineer or even a stock trader whereas even under the Mao regime a farmer's son would be expected to become a farmer and to propose otherwise was unthinkable.

The other thing that is changing in China is that they are finally giving up the notion of shen. Shen is the life-force that fills everything and makes things real. Thus, modeling things has been problematic for the Chinese because a model of a boat (for instance) could not be tested for performance because it was a model and not a boat and in Chinese understanding it had the shen of a model and not a boat and therefore could not be used to judge the performance of a boat. Now they are much more open to the Western ideas of modeling and their technology is coming along. Give it another generation and the old concept of shen will be a memory.

[CDN_PATRIOT]

sandorski sandorski:

His "opinion", which wasn't btw, is wrong. Just a piece of Bumper Sticker "wisdom" people repeat to themselves for a bit of comfort.

His "opinion" is still waiting for that irefutable evidence for a decent rebuttle that you can't seem to come up with. So....put your money where your mouth (or keyboard) is.

Unless of course, your keyboard is made in China

-J.

[EyeBrock]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Education and culture in a free society blossom. It's not just those things but the social justice, freedom of speech, accountable judiciary, the rule of law etc that differentiate between our civilisations and those in oppressive/corrupt/despotic regimes.

Free thought can only really be nurtured to its pinnacle in a free society.

Good post. +1.

The cultural issues in Japan that held them back for so long have unravelled in the past 60 years and true innovation is now taking place in a land where inventors were once considered insufferably rude.

In China the cultural problem is that it is still important over there for individuals to 'know their place' in society and the cultural and economic upheaval of the past 20 years has started the undoing of six hundred years of Chinese tradition. In the new world the Chinese farmer's son can be a network engineer or even a stock trader whereas even under the Mao regime a farmer's son would be expected to become a farmer and to propose otherwise was unthinkable.

The other thing that is changing in China is that they are finally giving up the notion of shen. Shen is the life-force that fills everything and makes things real. Thus, modeling things has been problematic for the Chinese because a model of a boat (for instance) could not be tested for performance because it was a model and not a boat and in Chinese understanding it had the shen of a model and not a boat and therefore could not be used to judge the performance of a boat. Now they are much more open to the Western ideas of modeling and their technology is coming along. Give it another generation and the old concept of shen will be a memory.

Thanks Bart.

Interesting point's re both Japan and China. If China was really free and an accountable democracy with all the trappings, it would be a real super power.

Chinese immigrants into Western countries have totally added to the society they have landed in. There are some integration issues, as in a lot of Chinese prefer to live in so called cultural enclaves.
Chinese are also well known for networking to a level that excludes many non-Chinese, but all told, I think that Chinese immigration to Canada has been an unmitigated success for all involved.

Really, China has great potential. I'll be celebrating when the Chinese are truly free.

[sandorski]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Ever been to China Sand?

No, what does it matter?

[sandorski]

CDN_PATRIOT CDN_PATRIOT:

sandorski sandorski:

His "opinion", which wasn't btw, is wrong. Just a piece of Bumper Sticker "wisdom" people repeat to themselves for a bit of comfort.

His "opinion" is still waiting for that irefutable evidence for a decent rebuttle that you can't seem to come up with. So....put your money where your mouth (or keyboard) is.

Unless of course, your keyboard is made in China

-J.

My Keyboard was made in China. He offered no evidence, just something he read on a bumper sticker.

Fail, sorry.

[EyeBrock]

sandorski sandorski:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Ever been to China Sand?

No, what does it matter?

It doesn't really.

My opinions on democracy and freedom have been influenced by my living in various parts of the world (60 countries) on my travels over a 5 year period.

I was detached to Hong Kong for an extended period (just over a year) and my ‘bumper sticker’ opinions kinda come from my experiences in that amazing place.


Where do yours come from?

[sandorski]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

sandorski sandorski:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Ever been to China Sand?

No, what does it matter?

It doesn't really.

My opinions on democracy and freedom have been influenced by my living in various parts of the world (60 countries) on my travels over a 5 year period.

I was detached to Hong Kong for an extended period (just over a year) and my ‘bumper sticker’ opinions kinda come from my experiences in that amazing place.


Where do yours come from?

History. "Freedom" means nothing when talking about Innovation/Science. I far prefer Freedom over some form of Dictatorship, but it is Myopic and simply dangerous to think that "Freedom" = better/superior Technology/Innovation. Process/Science determines Innovation, not "Freedom".

[ShepherdsDog]

WIIFM is what stimulates creativity and innovation.

[BartSimpson]

sandorski sandorski:

History. "Freedom" means nothing when talking about Innovation/Science. I far prefer Freedom over some form of Dictatorship, but it is Myopic and simply dangerous to think that "Freedom" = better/superior Technology/Innovation. Process/Science determines Innovation, not "Freedom".

Yet the fact of the matter is that freedom DOES mean superior technology and innovation. Look at the USSR where innovation was frequently deemed as criticism of the Soviet regime. Alexander Dolzhin, for instance, was beaten and imprisoned for merely stating the specifics of an American ball point pen (the USSR not being able to copy the ball point pen at the time).

Freedom and liberty are utterly intrinsic to new ideas and innovation and are stifled as threats to authority in restrictive regimes.

Really, can you name one country that was under a boot heel dictatorship of some sort that was a paragon of innovation and radical new ideas? Of course not.

Process and science can become dictatorial and dogmatic as they oppose ideas that challenge the consensus and, again, as was seen in the Soviet Union and China and etc. new scientific ideas were stifled because they challenged the primacy of the state.

The ultimate expression of scientific anti-science was Lysenkoism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism

Such bullshit can only prosper when freedom of thought is stamped out. That you think freedom and innovation are separate speaks to your profound lack of understanding of how the world really works and it also speaks to your blind love of things of the left.