[Freakinoldguy]

Thank you Paul Hellyer. If it wasn't for him and a certain Government we wouldn't even be having this conversation and the Navy could have carried on as per normal for the last 43 years.

Long live all three badge AB's.

[EyeBrock]

I agree FOG!

It appears that to some people, not all heritage is equal, especially if it has anything to do with the dreaded British.

[Scape]

Keep livin the dream F old guy. Things were not as rosy under the old standard as you may have been led to believe. Why do you think they called them ivory towers after all? Something HAD to give and the choice presented was the country or the ego's of a few senior bass that though their shit didn't stink and couldn't share between the three branches to save their own skin. But blame Hellyer if it makes you sleep well at night.

Reminds me of the time when the truck drivers tried to form a union under Irving to demand a higher wage of .50 and hours. Irving response? Everyone who wants to work for .40 follow me, the rest... your services are not required.

[EyeBrock]

Come on Scape. The unification of the CF was a total fuck-up.

[c2shinysea]

Well, as a sailor currently serving in the Navy, I like the name Maritime Command. I also like the transformational plans that are underway. No matter what they call us in Ottawa, if it floats, flies an ensign and go bang at the bad guys (or evil fishing fleets), it's the Navy. The only ones that seem overly concerned what we are called are the souvenir guys and hat makers.

[saturn_656]

Scape Scape:

Something HAD to give and the choice presented was the country or the ego's of a few senior bass that though their shit didn't stink and couldn't share between the three branches to save their own skin. But blame Hellyer if it makes you sleep well at night.

The country? Don't you think you are exaggerating a little bit?

[EyeBrock]

So really, your a sailor serving in Maritime Command, not the 'Navy', that was disbanded in 1969.
Get with it dude.

[Scape]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Come on Scape. The unification of the CF was a total fuck-up.

So? And the BS from the brass backtalking the crown wasn't due a comeuppance? They expected fiefdoms and for the crown to bow down to THEM. I don't care who they thought they were that shit's gotta stop. They deserved the rug being pulled from under them.

[EyeBrock]

And we should disband proud regiments instead of court-martialling the bad apples too.

Hellyer had a bad attitude along with a record of zero combat while he was in. He just hated the historical links to the UK that the CF had. Add in the 1960's, Trudeau, Vietnam and we have a purely political decision to break up the Services.

[Scape]

saturn_656 saturn_656:

Scape Scape:

Something HAD to give and the choice presented was the country or the ego's of a few senior bass that though their shit didn't stink and couldn't share between the three branches to save their own skin. But blame Hellyer if it makes you sleep well at night.

The country? Don't you think you are exaggerating a little bit?

I read Hellyer's books and my Father in law served on the Bonnie at the time and told me the shenanigans going on at the time. Everyone and their dog knew the good times were coming to an end but the brass just would not take a hint. The lib's used Paul as the axe man and then gave him the boot soon after so what he wanted wasn't done right either but that's politics. The problem still remained that the forces were a white elephant at the time. There were serious retrofitting to be done to keep it or serious cutting. Since the brass was unwilling to meet even halfway and were so busy bitching and moaning to each other who was more important the government pulled the plug on all of them to shut them the hell up. Frankly, it was the right thing to do but they didn't follow through and was the liberal's fault.

[EyeBrock]

How was it the right thing to do?

Are there any other Western countries who saw the need to do this?

If there were problems with military brass, why didn't the politicians just deal with them? You are just making excuses for a very bad decision that still haunts the CF.

To destroy the RCN and RCAF and burden the Army with silly uniforms and made-up ranks still makes no sense.

The military values tradition and heritage much higher than most others. This was a small minded move by small minded people with a purely political agenda.

It made no military sense and it still doesn't.

Now we have Air Command pretending to be an 'air force' and Maritime Command pretending to be a 'Navy'. Very silly and totally avoidable.

[saturn_656]

Scape Scape:

saturn_656 saturn_656:

Scape Scape:

Something HAD to give and the choice presented was the country or the ego's of a few senior bass that though their shit didn't stink and couldn't share between the three branches to save their own skin. But blame Hellyer if it makes you sleep well at night.

The country? Don't you think you are exaggerating a little bit?

I read Hellyer's books and my Father in law served on the Bonnie at the time and told me the shenanigans going on at the time. Everyone and their dog knew the good times were coming to an end but the brass just would not take a hint. The lib's used Paul as the axe man and then gave him the boot soon after so what he wanted wasn't done right either but that's politics. The problem still remained that the forces were a white elephant at the time. There were serious retrofitting to be done to keep it or serious cutting. Since the brass was unwilling to meet even halfway and were so busy bitching and moaning to each other who was more important the government pulled the plug on all of them to shut them the hell up. Frankly, it was the right thing to do but they didn't follow through and was the liberal's fault.

The Canadian military a white elephant? Maybe if you were a communist.

It seems to me to be a simple fact of life that the Navy, Air Force, Army, under whatever name, will continue to fight for limited funding.

They destroyed much, accomplished little, in short it was a fiasco.

[CDN_PATRIOT]

Damn Liberals. They can't win an election, so they find other ways to aggravate Canadians.

-J.

[EyeBrock]

I don't just blame the Libs. This could have been reversed by the Tories.

[c2shinysea]

Well, the dude part is a slight misnomer but I'll overlook that. It appears that along with the hat makers and souvenir folks are also those who bemoan and wish for days gone by. Sure, I'd love to see the old 'n bolds see the Navy of their days wearing the Royal moniker again but that was their Navy and not the one I belong to today. If the Royal designation fits in with what we need as a maritime force, then it has it's place, if not, then like all things obsolete it has to go the way of the dodo bird. As I said, I like where we've been in the last 20 years and I like where we are going in the transformation. I'm looking forward to seeing out my next 18 years in whatever they want to call us. I joined to defend my country not to get caught up in name that element.