[andyt]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

andyt andyt:

No, I'm sorry, but I still don't see what you're on about. Nobody is calling the Huttarees right wing terrorists,

I disagree. Somebody did, in this very thread.

$1:

"These guys' politics were right of out of right-wing crazy land"

Even you, connected them to Anne Coulter, and referred to them as "wingers". Which wing were you referring to, I wonder. I can guess.

We can agree that if they are found guilty of what they are charged of, they are terrorists.

Wingers as in wingnuts - they can be left, right or none of the above. But their politics are right wing - libertarianism is usually associated with the right, no? And I connected them to Coulter only in the sense that here were some terrorists that definitely weren't Muslim, as she claimed all terrorists are.

You know, I'm anti-right, skew more left I guess. I like to think I'm just pragmatic and interested in what works. (I have a lot of use for ideas that the old timey Canadians conservatives like Robert Stanfield had, plus he made good ginch.) But when I heard about these guys, my thoughts weren't about Republicons or neocons or politics, but about how similar these guys are in motivation to the jihadis. But as Thanos has pointed out, these guys lie on a spectrum with the Teabaggers, who sure seem to be embraced by the Republicons.

Anyway, in my mind the jihadis are also right wing terrorists, because they want to establish a theocracy - not usually something the left is big on. They prefer more humanist types of utopias. And the jihadis were funded and armed by the CIA to counterbalance the commies - seems pretty right wing to me.

[KorbenDeck]

Why the hell would you train to battle the Antichrist? Its not exactly like (if the bible is true) that you need to worry about losing.

One world government is formed, you either have the mark of the beast or you don't. Than the leader declares himself God (or something like that), the war against religion happens, Jesus comes down and says "surprise sucker" and kicks the Antichrist ass. So no matter how much you "train" you have absolutely no affect on what happens or who wins.

[andyt]

KorbenDeck KorbenDeck:

Why the hell would you train to battle the Antichrist? Its not exactly like (if the bible is true) that you need to worry about losing.

One world government is formed, you either have the mark of the beast or you don't. Than the leader declares himself God (or something like that), the war against religion happens, Jesus comes down and says "surprise sucker" and kicks the Antichrist ass. So no matter how much you "train" you have absolutely no affect on what happens or who wins.

Why would any Christian who believes he'll go to heaven when he dies not gladly embrace his death and that of those he loves, as long as it's not by suicide? The whole problem with the monotheists is that they believe they only get one kick at the cat - so as I say, logically you should do everything you can to hasten your departure from this vale of tears, as long as what you're doing (or not doing) is OK with the big guy.

[N_Fiddledog]

Thanos Thanos:

The vast preponderance of lethal political violence and domestic terrorism that has ever been committed in American history, ranging from the advent of the KKK

How historically accurate is this one, I wonder...

$1:

thru to Timothy McVeigh, has always come from the far-Right and has almost always had extremist Christian overtones attached to it. This is historically and factually indisputable.

Oh, I don't know. I'll take a shot at disputing it.

Lee Harvey Oswald was a communist.

Squeaky Fromme who attempted to assassinate Republican Gerald Ford, was a member of the Charles Manson family.

John Wilkes Booth who assassinated Republican Abraham Lincoln was just a confederate sympathizer.

I guess you could make a case for Charles J. Guiteau as religious nut, but the president he shot - James Garfield was a Republican.

Leon Czolgosz, who shot Republican William McKinley was an anarchist.

FDR was of course a Democrat, but Giuseppe Zangara who attempted to assassinate him was driven mad by physical pain (also chronic flatulence, I kid you not). His original plan was to assassinate Herbert Hoover, who was a Republican.

Truman was a Democrat, but the guys who tried to assassinate him were Puerto Rican pro-independence activists.

Samuel Byck who planned to hijack a plane, and fly it into Republican Richard Nixon's Whitehouse was mad, because he was turned down for a small business loan.

John Hinckley, Jr who attempted to assassinate Republican Ronald Reagan was obsessed with actress Jodi Foster.

Frank Eugene Corder who crashed a stolen cessna onto the Whitehouse lawn during Clinton's administration did it for the publicity.

Francisco Martin Duran who shot up the white house shortly after that claimed he was saving the world from an Alien attack.

Let's move on to plane hijacking. What was all that "Take me to Cuba" stuff all about?

Animal Liberation Front

Weathermen

Symbionese Liberation Army

Black Liberation Army

Union violence

The McNamara Bros who bombed the LA Times bldg in 1910 wanted to unionize the paper.

I don't know if you want to accept the Unabomber as a leftie, but he definitely wasn't a right winger.

The best description of the Holocaust Memorial shooter is maybe Neo-Nazi. Do you wanna have the argument about who has to take responsibility for those guys? Let's not.

I'll argue this one with you though. I blame left wing political correctness for Major Nidal.

[xerxes]

Come back and complain about those awful lefties when:

-- A liberal walks into a church and opens fire on the congregation because they're all a bunch of conservatives and he wants to kill as many right-wingers as he can.

-- A liberal walks into another church and shoots a doctor in the head.

-- A liberal shoots three police officers who come to his door because he fears the president is going to take his guns away.

-- A liberal walks into the Holocaust Museum and shoots a guard because he hates Jews and believes it's time to start a race war.

-- A liberal walks into the Pentagon and opens fire because he believes the government is plotting against its citizens.

-- A pack of gun-loving liberals forms a plot to kill law-enforcement officers and start a revolution.

When the above happens, then we'll agree wtih you.

[Proculation]

Extremism is not a right or left wing thing. They just use different terms. The left calls it "revolution". The right calls it "patriotism" or "nationalism". But trying to tie extremism to a certain political pole is nothing more than ideologically bias.

[fifeboy]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

Thanos Thanos:

The vast preponderance of lethal political violence and domestic terrorism that has ever been committed in American history, ranging from the advent of the KKK

How historically accurate is this one, I wonder...

$1:

thru to Timothy McVeigh, has always come from the far-Right and has almost always had extremist Christian overtones attached to it. This is historically and factually indisputable.

Oh, I don't know. I'll take a shot at disputing it.

Lee Harvey Oswald was a communist.

Squeaky Fromme who attempted to assassinate Republican Gerald Ford, was a member of the Charles Manson family.

John Wilkes Booth who assassinated Republican Abraham Lincoln was just a confederate sympathizer.

I guess you could make a case for Charles J. Guiteau as religious nut, but the president he shot - James Garfield was a Republican.

Leon Czolgosz, who shot Republican William McKinley was an anarchist.

FDR was of course a Democrat, but Giuseppe Zangara who attempted to assassinate him was driven mad by physical pain (also chronic flatulence, I kid you not). His original plan was to assassinate Herbert Hoover, who was a Republican.

Truman was a Democrat, but the guys who tried to assassinate him were Puerto Rican pro-independence activists.

Samuel Byck who planned to hijack a plane, and fly it into Republican Richard Nixon's Whitehouse was mad, because he was turned down for a small business loan.

John Hinckley, Jr who attempted to assassinate Republican Ronald Reagan was obsessed with actress Jodi Foster.

Frank Eugene Corder who crashed a stolen cessna onto the Whitehouse lawn during Clinton's administration did it for the publicity.

Francisco Martin Duran who shot up the white house shortly after that claimed he was saving the world from an Alien attack.

Let's move on to plane hijacking. What was all that "Take me to Cuba" stuff all about?

Animal Liberation Front

Weathermen

Symbionese Liberation Army

Black Liberation Army

Union violence

The McNamara Bros who bombed the LA Times bldg in 1910 wanted to unionize the paper.

I don't know if you want to accept the Unabomber as a leftie, but he definitely wasn't a right winger.

The best description of the Holocaust Memorial shooter is maybe Neo-Nazi. Do you wanna have the argument about who has to take responsibility for those guys? Let's not.

I'll argue this one with you though. I blame left wing political correctness for Major Nidal.

Much of the above is making the assumption that Republican/Democrat in the U.S. has been a fixed set of opposing ideas from 1776 on. When I was young and living in the Southern U.S. most winning politicians there were Democrats and in the north the winners were often Republicans. Civil Rights and J.F.K/Lyndon Johnson/Jimmy Carter changed all that. The present day alignments of political parties is a recent development.

[sandorski]

Proculation Proculation:

Extremism is not a right or left wing thing. They just use different terms. The left calls it "revolution". The right calls it "patriotism" or "nationalism". But trying to tie extremism to a certain political pole is nothing more than ideologically bias.

In the Broad sense, this is true. Specifically at this time it is not quite true.Or more accurately, it is far more a Rightwing thing right now, but I suspect there could be a Leftwing backlash.

[stratos]

xerxes xerxes:

Come back and complain about those awful lefties when:

-- A liberal walks into a church and opens fire on the congregation because they're all a bunch of conservatives and he wants to kill as many right-wingers as he can.

-- A liberal walks into another church and shoots a doctor in the head.

-- A liberal shoots three police officers who come to his door because he fears the president is going to take his guns away.

-- A liberal walks into the Holocaust Museum and shoots a guard because he hates Jews and believes it's time to start a race war.

-- A liberal walks into the Pentagon and opens fire because he believes the government is plotting against its citizens.

-- A pack of gun-loving liberals forms a plot to kill law-enforcement officers and start a revolution.

When the above happens, then we'll agree wtih you.

A liberal wont walk in and shoot ppl they just shut down the church.

A liberal wont shoot a Jew he/she just pushes them out of the country. Because like all liberals know Jews are evil. Liberals stand by while Jews are attacked and killed.

A liberal would not walk into the pentagon they would just try to have it outlawed. Because all liberals know the Military is bad bad bad.

A Liberal if he/she is a true liberal wont own a gun they are bad bad bad. Yet where liberal's have the most sway in the US they have the most gun control laws. Those places have the most gun related crimes. Yet the liberal blames the cops for not doing their jobs.

Why would a Liberal start a revolution they love that the Gov. takes their rights away. They just love it when the gov. takes their money and gives it to people who wont work.
The above answers are obvious joke answers, well semi joke answers, and here's why.

Like in one of my responses a true liberal would never own a gun so you can always claim that the person doing the killing was not a true liberal just a rightwing nut poseing as a liberal. A true liberal would throw in snide comments and bring up things that had no relevence on the subject. Like in the artical theres a comment about the kids being home schooled. What exactly does that have to do with the subject of some nut jobs plotting to kill police officers?

A true liberal uses the law to kill thousands of unborn childern every year but stands outside a prison protesting a serial killers death sentence.

[N_Fiddledog]

xerxes xerxes:

Come back and complain about those awful lefties when:

-- A liberal walks into a church and opens fire on the congregation because they're all a bunch of conservatives and he wants to kill as many right-wingers as he can.

In that case you had a religious nut, who read right wing literature sympathetic to bits of his delusions. He walked into an institution and opened fire.

Very well let's look at Major Nidal and the Fort Hood massacre. Change the religion and the institution. It's pretty similar, except there were many more murdered, or injured, and the murders were facilitated by left wing political correctness.

$1:

-- A liberal walks into another church and shoots a doctor in the head.

In this one you have a wacko sympathetic to a cause favored by the right doing the killing. Very well. Are you familiar with the riots, vandalism, and attacks at military recruitment centers? Maybe not. One guy's currently doing 5 years for throwing a molotov cocktail. The media's been kind of hush on that one. A right wing blogger received reams of racist hate mail, and death threats for trying to publicize it though, so I know at least some lefties know about it. She wound up having to move as a result of the attacks. But that's not the specific incident I'm going to offer up.

Out of all that left wing rabble rousing against military recruitment centers a muslim convert sympathetic to the "pacifist?" rhetoric, sprayed a recruitment center with gunfire, killing 2.

$1:

-- A liberal shoots three police officers who come to his door because he fears the president is going to take his guns away.

I don't think I know this one, but you've twisted the descriptions on some so bad I have to really think to connect them to what you're talking about.

I could probably get closer if I knew the incident you're talking about here, but based on what you've offered, do you know who Maurice Clemmons is? You probably do if I tell you he's the life time criminal who Republican Governor Mike Huckabee was responsible for letting out onto the streets. He walked into a coffee shop, and shot four police officers dead. At the time he was so deluded by Obamamania he thought Barrack Obama was his brother.

$1:

-- A liberal walks into the Holocaust Museum and shoots a guard because he hates Jews and believes it's time to start a race war.

This one I know, and already mentioned. He was as much a right winger as he was a left winger, which is not at all. He was neither. At the time of the shooting he was also being investigated for a plan to blow up the offices of a right wing paper. The best political description of the guy, if you have to have one, was Neo-Nazi.

$1:

-- A liberal walks into the Pentagon and opens fire because he believes the government is plotting against its citizens.

Wait a minute...are you saying J. Patrick Bedell was a right winger? Where did you get that from? He was a pot smoking, software freak, who read anti-bush stuff, opposed the Irag war, and flirted with conspiracies like 9/11 truth. He had a long history of mental illness. His parents had warned the authorities of this, and claimed they thought he had a gun.

The rightiest thing he supported was the notion of private property. My best guess is he was thinking of digital property.

Here he is explaining his idea for how best to bureaucratize the buying and selling of digital information.



So tell me, if you were forced to guess how this particular guy voted in the last election, what would your guess be? Go ahead lie. Try to tell me you think this guy was a Palin supporter.

$1:

-- A pack of gun-loving liberals forms a plot to kill law-enforcement officers and start a revolution.

You're talking about the Hutarees, right? Specifically you're talking about the family based sub-cult run by the Stones who other militia groups disowned, and it's alleged had a plot to kill police officers, right?

Apparently they had some theory Obama was the anti-Christ, or something. It's based on this you're presenting your theory of the predominence of right wing nuttery. Is that correct?

One of them (Jacob Ward) is a registered Democrat. However let's say that because they appear to have displayed some sort of anti-Obama feeling they are now inextricably bound exclusively to the right wing. Very well.

The Manson family tried to kill Republican Gerald Ford. This isn't just "alleged". It happened, and they admit it. They are sympathetic to environmental and other causes generally thought to be the property of the left. Also...Helter Skelter. Will that do?

$1:

When the above happens, then we'll agree wtih you.

Cool, but I'm still not sure you understand what I'm saying. I'm not saying nutbars are more exclusive to one political ideology, or the other. I'm saying nuts, are just nuts. They don't need politics to motivate them. Sometimes, however political ideologies are convenient, both for them, and for those who would like to present the politics they favor as superior.

[Proculation]

I stand on my earlier statement: using examples to prove that extremism is on one side or another is just partisanery: extremism is everywhere.

Saying FLQ was marxist doesn't mean extremism is left-wing. Neither saying that Timothy McVeigh was extreme-right means that extremism is right-wing. Extremism is everywhere and can happen for any cause.

[N_Fiddledog]

Sorry about the length of the last post Proculation, but if you scroll down to the bottom, you'll see I agree with you.

[Proculation]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

Sorry about the length of the last post Proculation, but if you scroll down to the bottom, you'll see I agree with you.

Oh I do not talk about you specifically, but in general. To everyone wanting to say "look at that event, it proves my point".

[N_Fiddledog]

I'll give you the digested version of what I said, so you don't have to labor through all that tedious supporting evidence.

Insanity is not the exclusive property of any political ideology. From time to time selective policies, or personalities of one side, or the other can become convenient to authorize nuts nuttiness. That's really all I said. Sometimes nuts favor policies and people of the left. Sometimes the right.

[xerxes]

$1:

Quote:
-- A liberal shoots three police officers who come to his door because he fears the president is going to take his guns away.


I don't think I know this one, but you've twisted the descriptions on some so bad I have to really think to connect them to what you're talking about.

That was the guy in Pittsburgh who shot three police officers because he thought they were sent by Obama to take his guns away.