[Brenda]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Brenda Brenda:

The moment the buildings are renovated, they're not going to be rented out to low income residents anymore...

Of course not. If private investors pay for the renovation then they need to be able to recover their investments.

Of course, Van can pass a law like New York had that guaranteed rent controlled apartments to residents after renovations. The consequence of that law were scores and scores of abandoned apartment buildings and literally miles of blight.

I just don't understand the hesitation of socialization.

Socialized housing, or housing corporations subsidized by the government makes sure everybody can afford housing in good condition.

Why does North America want to keep everything privatized?

[martin14]

Brenda Brenda:

I just don't understand the hesitation of socialization.

Socialized housing, or housing corporations subsidized by the government makes sure everybody can afford housing in good condition.

Why does North America want to keep everything privatized?

There are socialized housing 'projects' in North America B,
usually in the larger cities, not in the center.
Or on the reserves.




However, without the pride of ownership, and the sacrifices needed to get it,
these 'projects' get run down pretty quickly.

Socialized housing doesn't work, imo.

Help yes, but help to purchase.

[Brenda]

martin14 martin14:

Brenda Brenda:

I just don't understand the hesitation of socialization.

Socialized housing, or housing corporations subsidized by the government makes sure everybody can afford housing in good condition.

Why does North America want to keep everything privatized?

There are socialized housing 'projects' in North America B,
usually in the larger cities, not in the center.
Or on the reserves.

However, without the pride of ownership, and the sacrifices needed to get it,
these 'projects' get run down pretty quickly.

Socialized housing doesn't work, imo.

Help yes, but help to purchase.

When was the last time you lived in Holland? ALL rentals, except for the ones that are expensive and are houses (not appartments) are subsidized or government owned. The big appartmentbuildings are owned by a not for profit landlord company, who puts the rent back into maintenance and building new projects. Even living off of welfare, you can rent an appartment that suits your needs, has running warm water, and is insulated. There, it works perfectly fine.

[Brenda]

The junk they rent out here for over $800... you don't want to know. How the hell can you afford that???

[poquas]

Holy crap! I could subdevide the main floor of my house into 14 "mini-suites" and make about $9500 per month!

[martin14]

Brenda Brenda:

When was the last time you lived in Holland?

1966

$1:

Even living off of welfare, you can rent an appartment that suits your needs, has running warm water, and is insulated. There, it works perfectly fine.

sure, and when you have a job:

$1:

Tax rates and personal allowances (amounts 2008)

The amount of tax owed is calculated by applying the tax rates to the taxable income. The result is reduced by one or more tax credits. Everyone has the right to a general credit on the tax owed: the general tax credit. Additional credits over and above are available. Which additional credits apply depends on someone’s personal circumstances. The general credit is EUR 2,074. For individuals with income from current employment the credit is increased by a maximum of EUR 1.443. For taxpayers with children special credits are applicable.
Tax rate for income from work and home (box 1)

The tax rate is a rising scale with four brackets. The rates are (2008):

*

33.60% on the first EUR 17,579
*

41.85% on the next EUR 14,010
*

42% on the next EUR 22,271
*

52% on the remainder

The 33.60% rate consists of 2.45% tax and 31.15% social security contributions, the second rate consists of 10.70% tax and 31.15% social security contributions, whilst the 42% and 52% rates consist solely of tax. A rate of 15.70% (first rate) and 23.95% (second rate) is applicable to people aged 65 and over, as they are no longer liable for several social security contributions.
Tax rate for income from substantial interest (box 2)

There is a fixed rate of 25%.
Tax rate for income from savings and investment (box 3)

There is a fixed rate of 30%.

http://www.expatax.nl/incometaxexpatax.htm

It was too depressing to look things like business profit and
capital gains.

[Brenda]

You forget the deductables. Mortgage interest is deductable, healthcare premiums, cost and medication is deductable...
The year of our move to Canada, we made roughly Euro 45,000, with all the deductables, it added up (or counted down) to about 5000, so there was taxes to get back, not to pay.

[Lemmy]

martin14 martin14:

However, without the pride of ownership, and the sacrifices needed to get it,
these 'projects' get run down pretty quickly.

Socialized housing doesn't work, imo.

Help yes, but help to purchase.

But the buildings are owned privately. They're owned by landlords. The reason they get run down isn't because they're not privately owned. They get run down because the owners don't get fair market rent for them. Whether the tenent owns or rents the unit has nothing to do with why they become tenements.

[Brenda]

Here, the worst shit buildings I see, are privately owned, not by corporations. Corporations have to stick by the law.

[Brenda]

$1:

They get run down because the owners don't get fair market rent for them.

They get run down because the owners dont give a flying fuck.

The richest man in town here (an Austrian native) owns half the town in rental property. He does NOT fix leaking faucets (just an example), does not renovate his houses, and still gets top dollar for the junk he rents out. The buildings owned by Housing BC (I thought it was called) are perfectly maintained.

[Lemmy]

Brenda Brenda:

$1:

They get run down because the owners don't get fair market rent for them.

They get run down because the owners dont give a flying fuck.

The richest man in town here (an Austrian native) owns half the town in rental property. He does NOT fix leaking faucets (just an example), does not renovate his houses, and still gets top dollar for the junk he rents out. The buildings owned by Housing BC (I thought it was called) are perfectly maintained.

Well, you're right, but WHY does he not "give a flying fuck"? The answer is that he knows his apartments ought to be worth, say, $1000 per month on the open market, but the government tells him he's only allowed to charge $600. So what does he do? Fuck all, let the building fall into disrepair so it really IS worth only $600 a month.

Don't put rent-control problems on the landlord. They're just making a reasonable response to a predicament. The blame falls at the hands of the government for the price ceiling, not at the landlords.

Milton Friedman said "The surest way to destroy a city, short of dropping an atomic bomb on it, is to allow the government to introduce rent control."

[Brenda]

We don't really have appartment buildings here, only privately owned houses, and they charge $800 for a shack that hasn't been updated for decades. Free market, they can charge whatever they want, and they do.
Don't buy your "its not the landlords fault". It sure as hell is.

When we first moved here, this place was a rental, and a drama. Nothing has been done to this place since it was built in 1966. It has always been rented out. The only maintenance done was a new roof 9 years ago. Plumbing, wiring, insulation, everything was standard 1966 build. We tore it ALL down. Anyway, we paid $700 for a 2 bedroom + 1 down, that is illegal because the windows are too small. That was cheap. The rest we have seen was more expensive, and in the same state. ALL the rentals my friends live in are shacks, and no work has been done since at least the 80's. Nothing is up to 2006 code. So please, do not give me this crap.

[Brenda]

Btw, according to your answer, you have no idea how it is dealt with in The Netherlands. You can paint the walls, lower a ceiling, change the showerthingy yourself. Major plumbing issues, cracked windows or anything else outside is the landlords (corporations) issue, everything inside is yours. Houses (including appartments) are built of brick, you can actually hammer a nail in the wall. That is your right.

[Lemmy]

But the landlord is just reacting to the policy enforced upon him. If he has a property that he knows is worth $1200/month and the government tells him he can charge a maximum of $600/mo. what do you expect him to do? Maintain the apartment or let it fall into disrepair so that it really is worth $600/mo? Blame the government policy maker, not the landlord for reacting logically to the policy.

[Brenda]

Lemmy Lemmy:

But the landlord is just reacting to the policy enforced upon him. If he has a property that he knows is worth $1200/month and the government tells him he can charge a maximum of $600/mo. what do you expect him to do? Maintain the apartment or let it fall into disrepair so that it really is worth $600/mo? Blame the government policy maker, not the landlord for reacting logically to the policy.

The houses are privately owned. The government isnt telling them anything, they just rent it out, pay their mortgage (which is usually what the renter pays, original mortgage amount + property taxes and some extra, their mortgage goes down, rent goes up every year), and don't maintain the property.
I don't know how it works in the big city, but that is how it works here.

Socialization doesn't mean "the government tells you how much you can get for it". It means way more than that. You don't see dumps like I see here in The Netherlands.