[Yogi]

On a more serius note. We really need to quit dumping toxic waste and sewage into the oceans. Victoria, Vancouver, St. Johns, Halifax. to name a few!

[Yogi]

Brenda Brenda:

Yogi Yogi:

Can ya see any 'big fish carcasses floating in the ocean' from your hotel room in New Yawk, B?

Did you fuck with your quote button again?

(I wasn't near the ocean, sweety... Near Broadway and 5th avenue though! )

YUP! I fucked up again. But don't tell anyone. OK?

[PluggyRug]

Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

Ya, good point. How about we just dump all of our toxic waste into the ocean and hope for the best. Save everyone a whole bunch of money.

Except carbon dioxide isn't "toxic waste". And they oceans aren't acidifying. Some are becoming slightly less alkaline. It's nothing the corals and fishlife around them haven't seen before.

Interesting you should mention toxic waste though. One of your "the science" scientists did a study to show how the oceans were turning to acid. He used two bodies of water for his data. Both were having to deal with for-real toxic pollution (I think it was sewage), except he didn't mention that. The corals were dying. His study showed, with beautiful graphs, how acid oceans, he claimed were caused by man-made carbon dioxide were killing the corals. However...

By coincidence the Australian government, I think it was, had been in the process of cleaning those bays of the sewage, if that's what it was, in the background, as part of a previous project. The bays got clean. The corals came back. Haven't heard anything from "the science" scientist about it since.[/quote]

$1:

Ocean conservation is rewarding because you absolutely can make a difference. You leave a fish population alone for a while, and it rebounds. The oceans are incredibly resilient. We have the opportunity right now to protect the oceans and the life they harbor for future generations. Ya, I think you are on the same page as these guys.

I don't know how your cheeky comment "send money" helps the cause.

Are you suggesting that the billions of tons of waste, toxic or not, are good for the ocean? Do you think that over fishing and pollution species out of existence is good for the eco system?

Or are you too busy throwing around red herrings to satisfy some economic end that includes the exploitation of nature to the point of doom?

Fishing or hunting animals to extinction is a valid point. Dumping and/or spilling waste or toxins (Exxon Valdez)into the ocean is not good, regardless of weather you think "slightly more acidic" is not a problem.

Do you think slightly more smog in your city is good? How about slightly more toxins in your drinking water or at the beach you swim in. Really, a little more mercury in your drinking water is nothing a human child has not had to endure before. Relax. Just make sure it is your kid and not mine.

Most people know that toxic crap is dumped into the oceans.... So why attack the fiddler for stating that CO2 is not toxic waste.

[bootlegga]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

Except carbon dioxide isn't "toxic waste". And they oceans aren't acidifying. Some are becoming slightly less alkaline. It's nothing the corals and fishlife around them haven't seen before.

Interesting you should mention toxic waste though. One of your "the science" scientists did a study to show how the oceans were turning to acid. He used two bodies of water for his data. Both were having to deal with for-real toxic pollution (I think it was sewage), except he didn't mention that. The corals were dying. His study showed, with beautiful graphs, how acid oceans, he claimed were caused by man-made carbon dioxide were killing the corals. However...

By coincidence the Australian government, I think it was, had been in the process of cleaning those bays of the sewage, if that's what it was, in the background, as part of a previous project. The bays got clean. The corals came back. Haven't heard anything from "the science" scientist about it since.

Tell you what, we'll put you in a room filled with carbon dioxide and see how long you last...carbon dioxide is deadly to fish. Read up on dead zones and maybe you'll change your mind.

** edited for spelling

[Yogi]

Documentary channel ( 503 starchoice/shaw)

'Crapshoot', a documentary about toxic wastes being flushed into the sewere systems.

Starting in 2 mins. Should be worth the time!


*EDIT* It is well worth the time!

[Yogi]

What a disgusting and disturbing show! Did anyone else watch it?
I will be giving serius consideration to replacing my toilets with one of these.


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Specifications:
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4 people full-time use
6 people part-time use
Total 355 watts
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25 watt fan (runs continuously)
305 watt heaters (thermostatically controlled)
25 watt mixer moter

[commanderkai]

bootlegga bootlegga:

Tell you what, we'll put you in a room filled with carbon dioxide and see how long you last...carbon dioxide is deadly to fish. Read up on dead zones and maybe you'll change your mind.

** edited for spelling

Did a quick read about "Dead Zones" and it discusses the low-oxygen levels caused by fertilizer runoff and sewage dumpage, and not CO2.

Seriously, even though he might die from a room filled with CO2, that has absolutely nothing to do with the Dead Zones. Nitrogen, and not carbon dioxide, has effects on low-oxygen levels of water.

Edit: Replaced "little" with "nothing"

[bootlegga]

commanderkai commanderkai:

bootlegga bootlegga:

Tell you what, we'll put you in a room filled with carbon dioxide and see how long you last...carbon dioxide is deadly to fish. Read up on dead zones and maybe you'll change your mind.

** edited for spelling

Did a quick read about "Dead Zones" and it discusses the low-oxygen levels caused by fertilizer runoff and sewage dumpage, and not CO2.

Seriously, even though he might die from a room filled with CO2, that has absolutely nothing to do with the Dead Zones. Nitrogen, and not carbon dioxide, has effects on low-oxygen levels of water.

Edit: Replaced "little" with "nothing"

Yes, they are generally caused by excess fertilizer. However, they create vast quantities of CO2, which also kills sea life.

$1:

About one third of the carbon dioxide that humans produce by burning fossil fuels is being absorbed by the world's oceans, gradually causing seawater to become more acidic.

High concentrations of carbon dioxide make it harder for marine animals to respire (to extract oxygen from seawater). This, in turn, makes it harder for these animals to find food, avoid predators, and reproduce.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 161506.htm

[N_Fiddledog]

bootlegga bootlegga:

Tell you what, we'll put you in a room filled with carbon dioxide and see how long you last...

If you did that I would die from oxygen deprivation. I can breath water vapour in the atmosphere, but if you put me underwater for any length of time I will also die - again from oxygen deprivation.

C02 in the atmosphere is currently about 385 ppm (parts per million).

$1:

CO2 is toxic in higher concentrations: 1% (10,000 ppm) will make some people feel drowsy.

Mickeypedia

or...from another source...

We try to keep CO2 levels in our U.S. Navy submarines no higher than 8,000 parts per million, about 20 time current atmospheric levels.

Think about it... (get out your calculator and compare 385ppm to 10,000ppm)

BTW if you go too far below, I think it's 100ppm, everything alive on earth dies. We need C02.

$1:

carbon dioxide is deadly to fish.

I read the article you posted. Basically they seem to be saying if you take enough of the oxygen out of the ocean, and replace it with CO2 the fish will not be able to make use of oxygen. Well, duh. God, I hope I wasn't the one paying for that study. He's talking about the same experiment you were offering me up for where if you take all the oxygen out of a closet and replace it with carbon dioxide you will be able to show I will die of oxygen deprivation.

Now let's return to the real world for a sec. In the real world are either of those instances likely to happen? (well, maybe the closet thing if I don't shut up, right? )

Whenever these guys try to spook me with these kinds of hypotheticals, I always return to this graph...



OK, the thick black line is CO2 over 600 million years. See that little spot in the bottom right, where the line dumps to the basement at the end. We are there - 385 parts per million of carbon dioxide. Corals began to appear during the Cambrian. Find that on the graph. Notice how much Carbon dioxide there is in the Cambrian? Corals became prevalent in the Ordovician. Check the CO2 level. About 380 million years ago we started to notice the first jawed fish. Still lots of CO2.

Oxygen minimum zones were around for all that time. They're part of the natural world. So if increased CO2 is going to kill the fish off at the pittance of CO2 we have currently, or are likely to have before we run out of fossil fuels, why didn't it before?