[ShepherdsDog]

seeing as many members of the NDP seem to sympathize with groups and individuals labelled as terrorist(s), we're safer with them knowing SFA.

[Bacardi4206]

SigPig SigPig:

Bacardi4206 Bacardi4206:

Look at all this typical NDP bashing. If it was the conservatives asking for the intel it would be ok right?

All that guy wants is to know what they are up to. Which is the right we have. Unless of course you think it's ok that the government and military keeps things from the public and does things without our consent on the subject.

But than again, you only go against it because a "socialist pig" wanted to the information. He isn't asking for the names of the people involved or there address all he wants to know is what the hell they are up to.

Are you serious???

Of course there are certain things the military/government is going to keep from the public. It's like that because it's sensitive to operational and state security. I expect that there are certain details that need to be withheld in order to maintain the integrity of what they are doing.

And for the record NO it would not be OK if it was the Libs, Cons Greens, Bloc or any other party you can name was asking for details. This is the NDP trying to get air time and making it look like they are protecting Canadians from their own government. And for them to publicly throw this out there just to forward there own crap agenda shows that they have no business running the country because if they did, every state secret we had would be published within a week.

The project is nothing more than having a eyes on view of whats going on in the artic and keeping track of that side of the border. How is that sensitive information? Prince Harry of the British Royal Family joining the army and going to war is sensitive information best kept secret. Having a artic operation of setting up new tech to keep a eye on the artic is not sensitive information. Infact the government has been bragging about wanting to do that for years. Even said it will happen in the future.

Also I want to know what my military and government is doing. You remember the U.S. Militaries secret? Guantanimo and the level of torture they do up there. Look how great that would have turned out if the citizens diddn't find out what happened up there. Should that have been kept secret? Allowing our government to bypass the geneva convention and just straight up torture the shit out people who half of which aren't even terrorists.

I guess you probally think Canada isn't capable of that right? I bet Americans were thinking the exact same thing before they found out about all there governments secrets.

[Bacardi4206]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

seeing as many members of the NDP seem to sympathize with groups and individuals labelled as terrorist(s), we're safer with them knowing SFA.

Huh? You got a article of Jack Layton doing something simular to that. How exactly does Jack Layton's views become the entire NDP and it's supporters views?

When the Liberals got rid of our chinooks and a lot of our other military equipment. Stuff that soon in the future of that our soldiers could have used and which would have saved many of there lives having the ability to airlift soldier to the battlezone instead of driving or walking across mine, IED and Ambush infested roads.

Maybe all the Liberal Politicians and Supporters are a bunch of dumbasses who got our soldiers killed. For both entering us in a war and cutting military spending and selling off all our needed equipment that the soldiers they sent to war could have used.

I could just blame that on the person(s) really responsable but bashing the entire liberal party is so much funner right?

[SigPig]

Bacardi4206 Bacardi4206:

The project is nothing more than having a eyes on view of whats going on in the artic and keeping track of that side of the border. How is that sensitive information? Prince Harry of the British Royal Family joining the army and going to war is sensitive information best kept secret. Having a artic operation of setting up new tech to keep a eye on the artic is not sensitive information. Infact the government has been bragging about wanting to do that for years. Even said it will happen in the future.

Also I want to know what my military and government is doing. You remember the U.S. Militaries secret? Guantanimo and the level of torture they do up there. Look how great that would have turned out if the citizens diddn't find out what happened up there. Should that have been kept secret? Allowing our government to bypass the geneva convention and just straight up torture the shit out people who half of which aren't even terrorists.

I guess you probally think Canada isn't capable of that right? I bet Americans were thinking the exact same thing before they found out about all there governments secrets.

See you and I already know enough already. They are keeping an eye in the Arctic because of all the dispute that has started over the area.

As far as I am concerned we don't need to know exactly what they are finding, how they are finding it. Don't yo think that letting other countries know exactly how we are keeping tabs on them in our borders might give them an advantage in avoiding our detection? We need to protect the ares and I am more then comfortable letting them go about it.

And who the F--- said anything about by-passing the Geneva convention? This is simply a surveillance system that is protecting the integrity of our own borders. We aren't torturing people up there for crying out loud. Try and stay focused on the topic at hand.

You obviously aren't getting the concept of operational security whatsoever. Maybe you would if you weren't just an armchair general who was just "interested" in the CF and actually understood how things work. Maybe we should start publishing the capabilities of JTF-2 as well, and hey while we are at it why not the emergency plans for the country. Because nothing bad could ever happen then right and everyone would be happy and hold hands. Typical NDP with their heads in the sand living in a fantasy.

[Bacardi4206]

SigPig SigPig:

Bacardi4206 Bacardi4206:

The project is nothing more than having a eyes on view of whats going on in the artic and keeping track of that side of the border. How is that sensitive information? Prince Harry of the British Royal Family joining the army and going to war is sensitive information best kept secret. Having a artic operation of setting up new tech to keep a eye on the artic is not sensitive information. Infact the government has been bragging about wanting to do that for years. Even said it will happen in the future.

Also I want to know what my military and government is doing. You remember the U.S. Militaries secret? Guantanimo and the level of torture they do up there. Look how great that would have turned out if the citizens diddn't find out what happened up there. Should that have been kept secret? Allowing our government to bypass the geneva convention and just straight up torture the shit out people who half of which aren't even terrorists.

I guess you probally think Canada isn't capable of that right? I bet Americans were thinking the exact same thing before they found out about all there governments secrets.

See you and I already know enough already. They are keeping an eye in the Arctic because of all the dispute that has started over the area.

As far as I am concerned we don't need to know exactly what they are finding, how they are finding it. Don't yo think that letting other countries know exactly how we are keeping tabs on them in our borders might give them an advantage in avoiding our detection? We need to protect the ares and I am more then comfortable letting them go about it.

And who the F--- said anything about by-passing the Geneva convention? This is simply a surveillance system that is protecting the integrity of our own borders. We aren't torturing people up there for crying out loud. Try and stay focused on the topic at hand.

You obviously aren't getting the concept of operational security whatsoever. Maybe you would if you weren't just an armchair general who was just "interested" in the CF and actually understood how things work. Maybe we should start publishing the capabilities of JTF-2 as well, and hey while we are at it why not the emergency plans for the country. Because nothing bad could ever happen then right and everyone would be happy and hold hands. Typical NDP with their heads in the sand living in a fantasy.

I was mearly pointing out the flaw in just allowing our military and government to do whatever they hell they wanted without atleast some civilian knowledge and consent. That is why I was talking about the Geneva convention.

Try and keep up with my sentences will you and stop putting words in my mouth. Anyways I can see this I am going to get ganged up here so I will pull out early. I am just sick of all of you bitching and moaning about parties and insulting them all due to one politician.

I don't know what you people can't get about one politician no matter what party he belongs to doesn't speak for the entire party. So get your head of you're ass and insult jack layton, insult whatever INDIVIDUAL political responsable for whatever the hell you are bitching about but bashing a entire party is just idiotic and pointless.

[SigPig]

Bacardi4206 Bacardi4206:

Guantanimo and the level of torture they do up there. Look how great that would have turned out if the citizens diddn't find out what happened up there.

Allowing our government to bypass the geneva convention and just straight up torture the shit out people who half of which aren't even terrorists.

Where exactly did I put words in your mouth? You brought this up, not me.

And you are damn right I will criticize a party when their LEADER screws up and/or is being retarded. The party chose him as leader, they chose him to speak for them, they chose him to because they felt he would best represent their views. You care to explain again how the leader doesn't represent the party and it's views? Or am I missing something about how political parties work? And that applies to all parties, not just the NDP. This time it just happened to be Jack's turn. Again. Can't blame us for the fact that he screws up so often.

[Bacardi4206]

SigPig SigPig:

Bacardi4206 Bacardi4206:

Guantanimo and the level of torture they do up there. Look how great that would have turned out if the citizens diddn't find out what happened up there.

Allowing our government to bypass the geneva convention and just straight up torture the shit out people who half of which aren't even terrorists.

Where exactly did I put words in your mouth? You brought this up, not me.

And you are damn right I will criticize a party when their LEADER screws up and/or is being retarded. The party chose him as leader, they chose him to speak for them, they chose him to because they felt he would best represent their views. You care to explain again how the leader doesn't represent the party and it's views? Or am I missing something about how political parties work? And that applies to all parties, not just the NDP. This time it just happened to be Jack's turn. Again. Can't blame us for the fact that he screws up so often.

Yes I know I said that, and this what you said "And who the F--- said anything about by-passing the Geneva convention? This is simply a surveillance system that is protecting the integrity of our own borders. We aren't torturing people up there for crying out loud. Try and stay focused on the topic at hand."

As I said, just try and read my words. Stop putting words in my mouth or should I put it in detail just to get you off my back?

I was trying to make a point about what the American Government and Military was doing and how they were breaking the Geneva Convention in doing it. Making a point that not knowing what your government is doing has flaws and consiquences and is good to know what direction they are facing.

It had no direct links to the article but it does have direct links to the point I was trying to make which is the citizens do need to know what there government is up to. I already said that there were certon things best kept secret if it involved something that could effect us as a country or the citizens in it. Like if we were launching a new offensive of the Taliban in Afghanistan and don't want to give them a heads up. But having a artic operation where the government and military just wants to keep a eye on there is not top secret material.

[SigPig]

Bacardi4206 Bacardi4206:

Yes I know I said that, and this what you said "And who the F--- said anything about by-passing the Geneva convention? This is simply a surveillance system that is protecting the integrity of our own borders. We aren't torturing people up there for crying out loud. Try and stay focused on the topic at hand."

As I said, just try and read my words. Stop putting words in my mouth or should I put it in detail just to get you off my back?

I was trying to make a point about what the American Government and Military was doing and how they were breaking the Geneva Convention in doing it. Making a point that not knowing what your government is doing has flaws and consiquences and is good to know what direction they are facing.

It had no direct links to the article but it does have direct links to the point I was trying to make which is the citizens do need to know what there government is up to. I already said that there were certon things best kept secret if it involved something that could effect us as a country or the citizens in it. Like if we were launching a new offensive of the Taliban in Afghanistan and don't want to give them a heads up. But having a artic operation where the government and military just wants to keep a eye on there is not top secret material.

I agree there are consequences to just giving the government and military a free reign with no accountability. But we are not giving them free reign here, we are simply letting them do their jobs. To use your words, we know "which direction they are facing" on this matter. There is a surveillance system being set-up and used in the arctic. Why is it imperative to know more if they have deemed it to be too sensitive to be publicly released?

I am willing to realize that there are certain elements of intelligence gathering, which is exactly what this is, that need to be kept secret. They are using advanced technology to gather highly sensitive information about those who mean to violate our borders. I can personally relate to this because handling sensitive information is part of my job description. I don't even know every piece of equipment we have for this purpose because it is not my business to know at my level and I accept that. As a civilian you should accept the fact that there are things you don't need to know as well.

[Wada]

Trying to keep an eye on cost overruns is just sooo juvenile. Especially when it comes to government spending.

[bootlegga]

Bacardi4206 Bacardi4206:

Right and Canada has done so great under the leadership of the Liberals and Conservatives right? . NDP hasn't even gotten a shot yet so yeah keep critisizing it's usability but as far as I am concerned the NDP attempts to get the best of both parties. But hey, if you want to smash a party based on one representive. Maybe I should bring up some liberal and conservative history?

The NDP? Those are the same morons who wanted us to pull out of NATO during he Cold War. They also were against buying nuke subs to patrol the Arctic.

They have ZERO credibility when it comes to the defence of Canada.

[bootlegga]

Bacardi4206 Bacardi4206:

Huh? You got a article of Jack Layton doing something simular to that. How exactly does Jack Layton's views become the entire NDP and it's supporters views?

When the Liberals got rid of our chinooks and a lot of our other military equipment. Stuff that soon in the future of that our soldiers could have used and which would have saved many of there lives having the ability to airlift soldier to the battlezone instead of driving or walking across mine, IED and Ambush infested roads.

Maybe all the Liberal Politicians and Supporters are a bunch of dumbasses who got our soldiers killed. For both entering us in a war and cutting military spending and selling off all our needed equipment that the soldiers they sent to war could have used.

I could just blame that on the person(s) really responsable but bashing the entire liberal party is so much funner right?

Mulroney sold the Chinooks, not the Liberals. The Liberals also bought most of the equipment our troops are using in Afghanistan (CADPAT, LAV IIIs, Nyalas, M-577 howitzers, etc).

Get your facts right...

[uwish]

bootlegga bootlegga:

Bacardi4206 Bacardi4206:

Right and Canada has done so great under the leadership of the Liberals and Conservatives right? . NDP hasn't even gotten a shot yet so yeah keep critisizing it's usability but as far as I am concerned the NDP attempts to get the best of both parties. But hey, if you want to smash a party based on one representive. Maybe I should bring up some liberal and conservative history?

The NDP? Those are the same morons who wanted us to pull out of NATO during he Cold War. They also were against buying nuke subs to patrol the Arctic.

They have ZERO credibility when it comes to the defence of Canada.

I was about to make a similar comment.

[Tinatea]

Pretty tough for CF to protect our country when the details of CF plans and missions to protect us end up in the media and/or in the laps of the politicians who just spill all the details for all the countries around us to use in their favour.

Our military does NOT receive any where near enough money to protect our country... I can't imagine how much it'll cost our country in more ways than we can imagine to rectify the damage done by their secret mission details being spilled out. Our troops are under-paid and don't receive any where near the amount of benefits or pay they deserve. Our injured soldiers, often times unable to ever work again, are not taken care of, they risked their lives for every one of us, only to be kicked to the curb and government to turn their backs on them after all they did for our country. Don't get me started on the lack of medical services etc..., then there is the lack of equipment, old equipment, the list is endless and all of this takes money and LOTS of it. Should there be a war which takes place right here on Canadian soil (which personally I think is just a matter of time), we are all going to wish CF had the funding they needed so as to be far better set up than what they are and we are all going to wish that those details which needed to be kept secret, for the protection of our country and loved ones, were kept secret instead of being spilled out.

Just look at what is happening right now w/ Afghanistan missions; all kinds of videos are being posted on YouTube, which show "how" CF does their missions and the tactics they use, then the 'enemy' watch these videos and use these videos to kick CF butts and as a result, we loose more troops.

We really need to leave these sorts of details about CF missions, operations, plans, tactics etc... out of the media, off the internet and away from general knowledge because there are people in every military around the world collecting this information and it is pretty tough for CF to protect us when such information is simply handed on a silver platter for the world to see and read through and use in their favour (against Canadians).

This sort of information getting out "IS" a threat to Canadian Sovereignty and the safety of "ALL" Canadians and the sooner the leakage of this information comes to a stop, the safer we'll all be!

[fifeboy]

RUEZ RUEZ:

Actually yes Canada has done well under the Liberals and Conservatives. Look around. The NDP has governed provincially and they've f'ed it up royally.

Typical RUEZ BS.

[Woodhead]

Bacardi4206 Bacardi4206:

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

seeing as many members of the NDP seem to sympathize with groups and individuals labelled as terrorist(s), we're safer with them knowing SFA.

Huh? You got a article of Jack Layton doing something simular to that. How exactly does Jack Layton's views become the entire NDP and it's supporters views?

When the Liberals got rid of our chinooks and a lot of our other military equipment. Stuff that soon in the future of that our soldiers could have used and which would have saved many of there lives having the ability to airlift soldier to the battlezone instead of driving or walking across mine, IED and Ambush infested roads.

Maybe all the Liberal Politicians and Supporters are a bunch of dumbasses who got our soldiers killed. For both entering us in a war and cutting military spending and selling off all our needed equipment that the soldiers they sent to war could have used.

I could just blame that on the person(s) really responsable but bashing the entire liberal party is so much funner right?

Hey, we have a NDP MP here, and he is just as much of an asshole as Jack. Both are pretty representative of the whole party.
he spends more time helping out at the soup kitchen that he does in ottawa