[mtbr]

AlwaysCanuck AlwaysCanuck:

$1:

It appears sleeping with the enemy (the sepratists) is the only way these jack asses can get power,

But, this would have been okay a few years back when Mr. Harper had the same thing in mind?

Then he would have been a "master strategist"?

read the letter not the hearsay from the media.

[hurley_108]

RUEZ RUEZ:

hurley_108 hurley_108:

None of this would ever have happened if Harper hadn't brought forth a deliberately provocative fiscal update that focused more on crushing the opposition than anything else.

BS or are you just ignoring what we know the NDP was planning. As Riden has just posted. Sorry that doesn't fly.

The opposition needs some issue over which to bring down the government, whether that's a bad piece of llegislation the government brings forward on which confidence hinges, or a non-confidence motion of their own (and these would never fly on a "just because" basis - they have to be based on some real issue). In short, the government has to do something egregious for the opposition to vote them down.

The opposition can plot and scheme all they like, but if the government does nothing wrong, then the opposition has nothing on which to make their case for voting the government down. Harper handed them that on a silver platter. A do-nothing-for-the-economy fiscal update which also contained two huge poison pills - the scrapping of the subsidy and the banning of public sector strikes - all to be voted on just 48 days from the election.

The NDP and Bloc can plot all they like to politically hang the government, but the government has all the rope. Harper gave them all they needed.

[bootlegga]

RUEZ RUEZ:

hurley_108 hurley_108:

None of this would ever have happened if Harper hadn't brought forth a deliberately provocative fiscal update that focused more on crushing the opposition than anything else.

BS or are you just ignoring what we know the NDP was planning. As Riden has just posted. Sorry that doesn't fly.

It's funny that you are surprised that the opposition would have plans to upset the apple cart so to speak. Harper worked tirelessly for two years after Martin won to get the PM job, even going as far as talking about a possible coalition government with those Bloc separatists all you Conservatives claim to despise.

Yet when the Liberals do the exact same thing, it's beyond the pale, treason, a reason for separation, etc. It's a pity most of you can't look at your own party objectively.

Harper brought this crisis on with his attempt to crush the opposition plain and simple.

[AlwaysCanuck]

$1:

read the letter not the hearsay from the media.

I have.

What do you think Mr. Harper had in mind?

[mtbr]

AlwaysCanuck AlwaysCanuck:

$1:

read the letter not the hearsay from the media.

I have.

What do you think Mr. Harper had in mind?

the Conservatives were going to form the government, and the NDP and the Bloc were going to vote on each issue one at a time. No guarantees were given and no time frame was given. Unlike the CCC who have agreed on a coalition with 2 parties assuming cabinet posts, Libs 18 posts and NDP 6 posts.
The CCC has even set a time frame, of 30 months between the LIBs/NDP and 18 months for the Bloc.

[kenmore]

We should keep focused on one simple fact. The current situation is a
direct result of Stephen Harper and Jim Flaherty's failure to make any
attempt to address the very real concerns of Canadians -- many who are
facing difficult and uncertain times.

[EyeBrock]

hurley_108 hurley_108:

RUEZ RUEZ:

Robair Robair:

I like "Karma in Canadian Politics".

Turf him. Get a Conservative leader with a lick of common sense and statesmanship

Really? So what do you think of Dion then since he just lost an election and still may become PM. Certainly you don't just save your criticism for Harper?

None of this would ever have happened if Harper hadn't brought forth a deliberately provocative fiscal update that focused more on crushing the opposition than anything else.

Utter bollocks. Layton the Liar planned this 4-5 weeks prior to this and public opinion is turning right against this trio.

Keep trying to spin this hurley, I think only you believe it was about the fiscal statement. If it was, why keep on this track why the offending sections have been removed?

Lies, lies and more lies from the NDP.

[EyeBrock]

bootlegga bootlegga:

RUEZ RUEZ:

hurley_108 hurley_108:

None of this would ever have happened if Harper hadn't brought forth a deliberately provocative fiscal update that focused more on crushing the opposition than anything else.

BS or are you just ignoring what we know the NDP was planning. As Riden has just posted. Sorry that doesn't fly.

It's funny that you are surprised that the opposition would have plans to upset the apple cart so to speak. Harper worked tirelessly for two years after Martin won to get the PM job, even going as far as talking about a possible coalition government with those Bloc separatists all you Conservatives claim to despise.

Yet when the Liberals do the exact same thing, it's beyond the pale, treason, a reason for separation, etc. It's a pity most of you can't look at your own party objectively.

Harper brought this crisis on with his attempt to crush the opposition plain and simple.

Boots, Harper never talked about a 'coalition' so this is just more lies. He did OPENLY encourage the Bloc and NDP to vote in the house with the Tories on specfic issues or bills.
Trying to spin this as something the Tories did in 2005 is patently untrue. What is wrong with you guys? Can you not see this for what it is? It's a sneaky and underhand move by leaders of disparate parties and the best thing the bumbling Tories could do is let this trio of liars and losers lead.
The only problem is that Canada will suffer because of these liars.

Checkout what the public thinks, not good for the Liberals and this will haunt both the Libs and NDP for many years.

[Robair]

I see it for what it is, karma. Harper is not interested in democracy if it doesn't suit him. I'm talking wheat board elections. First he tried to over rule the results and hands slapped in court for it. Then he made sure he changed the voting criteria to exclude a bunch of farmers who oppose him from voting. Then he removed the campaign spending cap, something nobody asked for, so big money could back the guys with his point of view.

This may not be 100% democratic, but it certainly looks fair to me. It's karma, I love it. What's best is he brought it on himself.

[bootlegga]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

bootlegga bootlegga:

It's funny that you are surprised that the opposition would have plans to upset the apple cart so to speak. Harper worked tirelessly for two years after Martin won to get the PM job, even going as far as talking about a possible coalition government with those Bloc separatists all you Conservatives claim to despise.

Yet when the Liberals do the exact same thing, it's beyond the pale, treason, a reason for separation, etc. It's a pity most of you can't look at your own party objectively.

Harper brought this crisis on with his attempt to crush the opposition plain and simple.

Boots, Harper never talked about a 'coalition' so this is just more lies. He did OPENLY encourage the Bloc and NDP to vote in the house with the Tories on specfic issues or bills.
Trying to spin this as something the Tories did in 2005 is patently untrue. What is wrong with you guys? Can you not see this for what it is? It's a sneaky and underhand move by leaders of disparate parties and the best thing the bumbling Tories could do is let this trio of liars and losers lead.
The only problem is that Canada will suffer because of these liars.

Checkout what the public thinks, not good for the Liberals and this will haunt both the Libs and NDP for many years.

Lies huh?

$1:

The Conservatives have alleged that the moves by the opposition parties to offer themselves up to the Governor-General as a viable alternative, should the government fall, are undemocratic. However, the Liberals retaliated by saying that Mr. Harper, Mr. Layton and Mr. Duceppe presented precisely the same proposal to former Governor-General, Adrienne Clarkson, in 2005.

http://www.canadaka.net/link.php?id=39427

I didn't realize the National Post was in the business of printing lies...

You know what, I don't care for the idea of this coalition either, but I find it incredibly hypocritical for Conservatives to say "They've been planning to take down the government for weeks" when Harper was doing the exact thing when he sat on the opposition side of the House. Harper spent almost two years trying to take down Martin. I might not have cared for some of his tactics, but that was his job, just like it's the current opposition's job.

For months, Conservatives have been bitching about Dion and the Liberals abstaining from votes, but when they finally do oppose the Conservatives, suddenly there's a problem?

You can't have your cake and eat it too!

[dino_bobba_renno]

bootlegga bootlegga:

For months, Conservatives have been bitching about Dion and the Liberals abstaining from votes, but when they finally do oppose the Conservatives, suddenly there's a problem?

You can't have your cake and eat it too!

I don't think it's so much the fact that the opposition is standing up for themselves but rather what finally spurred them to do so. No other issue seemed to important enough to move the opposision to act until their public funding was attacked.

[JackCoiner]

kenmore kenmore:

We should keep focused on one simple fact. The current situation is a
direct result of Stephen Harper and Jim Flaherty's failure to make any
attempt to address the very real concerns of Canadians -- many who are
facing difficult and uncertain times.

You couldn't be more correct in this statement and it underlines the problems inherent in a system that provides for a minority government. A leader who is focused on watching out for the parliamentary hammer to come down and crush his government on a failed bill can't be expected to focus on actually getting things done. Likewise, when the opposition is busy conniving with 'fringe' parties to bring down an elected leadership, how much actual governing is going on?

[AlwaysCanuck]

$1:

the Conservatives were going to form the government, and the NDP and the Bloc were going to vote on each issue one at a time. No guarantees were given and no time frame was given.

Thanks, I didn't know that. I wasn't able to locate anything that documented what the understanding was between the Conservatives and BQ.

Still, Mr. Harper would have required support from the Bloc's 54 seats, as well as the NDP, to hold onto government, so signed agreement or not, I'm not really sure where the distinction is now.

Obviously he had no problem then with the BQ propping up his minority government, so why is this such an issue for him now?

[mtbr]

AlwaysCanuck AlwaysCanuck:

$1:

the Conservatives were going to form the government, and the NDP and the Bloc were going to vote on each issue one at a time. No guarantees were given and no time frame was given.

Thanks, I didn't know that. I wasn't able to locate anything that documented what the understanding was between the Conservatives and BQ.

Still, Mr. Harper would have required support from the Bloc's 54 seats, as well as the NDP, to hold onto government, so signed agreement or not, I'm not really sure where the distinction is now.

Obviously he had no problem then with the BQ propping up his minority government, so why is this such an issue for him now?

you left out the part of my post with the details.

"Libs 18 posts and NDP 6 posts.
The CCC has even set a time frame, of 30 months between the LIBs/NDP and 18 months for the Bloc."

[EyeBrock]

Boots, what the Tories and NDP did in 2005 was out in the open. There was no grand coalition to last 30 months and usurp the voters wishes. It was a simple non-confidence vote and an election followed.

This has been done behind closed doors weeks ago. The thing that gets me ( and about 75% of the public if media polls are to be believed) is that Layton pretended it was all about the 'fiscal statement' when he had planned this THREE days after the election with the bloody traitors from the Bloc.

And Robair, you never answered, did you vote Tory? It's really hard to take partisan posts as credible.

I know Harper fucked up and he will be held accountable, but trying to spin this web of deceit that Layton and Dion have spun as similar to what the Tories did in 2005 is just lies and it looks like a majority of Canadians agree with me.

The Liberals and NDP will be held accountable too and they will wear this for years.