[hurley_108]

ridenrain ridenrain:

Sorry, Hurley. Even though it looks like you're avatar has tits, I'm going to go with the ladies opinion on this.
I wouldn't trust the WHO to run a highway rest stop.

Do you have any other argumentative fallacies you'd like to try out? They'll all fail too.

[Tracker]

I'd doggy paddle over and watch.

[Brenda]

And the woman who CAN'T breastfeed, Hurley? They can't feed their kids IN the pool. Although they wished they could, but no bottles allowed. Thats unfair.
Powder milk has a lot of good stuff, it is almost as good as breastmilk.

[Hyack]

The Ministry of Health sets rules that ban food and drink around pools. She was offered the change room or the viewing gallery, she was not asked to move to a more "discrete" area, just not IN the pool. If breast milk is considered to be food or drink,there should be no question about it ....NOT in or around the pool.

[fifeboy]

Brenda Brenda:

You ALWAYS clean your breast before you feed your kid.

No I don't

[hwacker]

hurley_108 hurley_108:

it promotes healthy eating habits because

Hrmm, i wonder if that is a reason for over weight people in Canada ?


Less titty when you're young might get you more titty when you're older

[SigPig]

hurley_108 hurley_108:

Breastfeeding has benefits far beyond simply being food. It promotes a strong bond between mother and child due to the close contact, it promotes healthy eating habits because you can't overfeed and teach an infant to ignore the signals that its full, it's not just better nutritionally - it's the best, being able to feed on demand also promotes trust and feeling of security. Nothing else comes close, and no restrictions on it should be tolerated.

I never once denied the benfits of breasfeeding. I think that it is far better for a child than anything else, for all the reasons you mentioned. However, that does not mean that there should be zero restrictions on where it can be done. If a mother wants to breastfeed in a restourant, on a bus, park bench, in a store, mall, car, side of the road, WHEREVER fine. However, this pool had rules, she violated them, was given a legitimate alternative and she refused. It in no way infringed on her ability to "feed on demand" as you called it. Im pretty sure the 30 seconds it takes to get out and sit on a deckchair is going to scar that baby's trust of its mother for the rest of its life.

[hurley_108]

Hyack Hyack:

The Ministry of Health sets rules that ban food and drink around pools. She was offered the change room or the viewing gallery, she was not asked to move to a more "discrete" area, just not IN the pool. If breast milk is considered to be food or drink,there should be no question about it ....NOT in or around the pool.

Here's the justification given by the pool's owner:

$1:

According to Karkouti, while salt and chlorine reduce dangerous bacteria in a pool, the water's still "filled with stuff that you can't kill – people's pee and sweat and body stuff is in there. Am I ever going to stick my baby's mouth on a breast that's been in a pool without cleaning it (first)? Never, ever."

Or even according to an article which gives a bit more info on the actual regulations:

$1:

Rather than asking the mother to sit on the deck floor, 1.8 metres away from the swimming area, as required by pool regulations in the province, Mrs. Karkouti asked the mother to move to a more comfortable location, she said.

...

“I follow the rules of Ontario,” Mrs. Karkouti said.

Apparently not, as the options she claims she gave are more restrictive than regulations allow, and as such seem more motiviated by modesty or ignorance than by a full and complete understanding of the regulations of the pool and the rights of breastfeeding mothers.

Food may be restricted by policy, but breastfeeding is more than just food. Breastfeeding was allowed, by law, anywhere more than 1.8m from the pool. The pool's owner asked more than she was allowed by law.

But good news, Brenda, you may bring formula (in a plastic bottle) on deck and feed your baby anywhere at least 1.8m from the pool.

[Brenda]

hurley_108 hurley_108:

Hyack Hyack:

The Ministry of Health sets rules that ban food and drink around pools. She was offered the change room or the viewing gallery, she was not asked to move to a more "discrete" area, just not IN the pool. If breast milk is considered to be food or drink,there should be no question about it ....NOT in or around the pool.

Here's the justification given by the pool's owner:

$1:

According to Karkouti, while salt and chlorine reduce dangerous bacteria in a pool, the water's still "filled with stuff that you can't kill – people's pee and sweat and body stuff is in there. Am I ever going to stick my baby's mouth on a breast that's been in a pool without cleaning it (first)? Never, ever."

Or even according to an article which gives a bit more info on the actual regulations:

$1:

Rather than asking the mother to sit on the deck floor, 1.8 metres away from the swimming area, as required by pool regulations in the province, Mrs. Karkouti asked the mother to move to a more comfortable location, she said.

...

“I follow the rules of Ontario,” Mrs. Karkouti said.

Apparently not, as the options she claims she gave are more restrictive than regulations allow, and as such seem more motiviated by modesty or ignorance than by a full and complete understanding of the regulations of the pool and the rights of breastfeeding mothers.

Food may be restricted by policy, but breastfeeding is more than just food. Breastfeeding was allowed, by law, anywhere more than 1.8m from the pool. The pool's owner asked more than she was allowed by law.

But good news, Brenda, you may bring formula (in a plastic bottle) on deck and feed your baby anywhere at least 1.8m from the pool.

Good, so we can feed our babies together on the deck
Seriously, I have NO problem with breastfeeding in public, but I do have a problem with breastfeeding in the water.

[hurley_108]

SigPig SigPig:

hurley_108 hurley_108:

Breastfeeding has benefits far beyond simply being food. It promotes a strong bond between mother and child due to the close contact, it promotes healthy eating habits because you can't overfeed and teach an infant to ignore the signals that its full, it's not just better nutritionally - it's the best, being able to feed on demand also promotes trust and feeling of security. Nothing else comes close, and no restrictions on it should be tolerated.

I never once denied the benfits of breasfeeding. I think that it is far better for a child than anything else, for all the reasons you mentioned. However, that does not mean that there should be zero restrictions on where it can be done. If a mother wants to breastfeed in a restourant, on a bus, park bench, in a store, mall, car, side of the road, WHEREVER fine. However, this pool had rules, she violated them, was given a legitimate alternative and she refused. It in no way infringed on her ability to "feed on demand" as you called it. Im pretty sure the 30 seconds it takes to get out and sit on a deckchair is going to scar that baby's trust of its mother for the rest of its life.

She was not offered a deck chair. She was offered the change room, and possibly the viewing gallery, when regulations allowed her probably far more options.

[SigPig]

hurley_108 hurley_108:

Breastfeeding was allowed, by law, anywhere more than 1.8m from the pool. The pool's owner asked more than she was allowed by law.

Ok, i will give you that asking her to move to the viewing gallery was exceeding what is permitted for them to ask since it far exceeds the 1.8m. However, would you also be willing to agree that they had a right to ask her to move since she was clearly violating the law of 1.8m becuase she didnt feel like getting up and moving away from her friends.

$1:

Rather than climb out of the warm water onto the cool deck, out of range of her friends, Longuinho started nursing Camilla on the stairs, with her breasts above water.

So this makes her just as wrong in this situation as anyone else and pretty much eliminates her right to complain that her rights were violated.

[hurley_108]

Brenda Brenda:

Good, so we can feed our babies together on the deck
Seriously, I have NO problem with breastfeeding in public, but I do have a problem with breastfeeding in the water.

Well, you and my wife can feed our babies together. I don't think I'd be able to feed my baby much.

I think that the risk to the baby and to the water quality is probably overstated, but the regs are the regs (and nobody else here but me botheref to try and find any info on them), and a business owner can't be faulted for tryign to keep their facility in compliance. Where they can be faulted is if they take an excessively strict interpretation of the regs, which seems to have happened here.

[hurley_108]

SigPig SigPig:

hurley_108 hurley_108:

Breastfeeding was allowed, by law, anywhere more than 1.8m from the pool. The pool's owner asked more than she was allowed by law.

Ok, i will give you that asking her to move to the viewing gallery was exceeding what is permitted for them to ask since it far exceeds the 1.8m. However, would you also be willing to agree that they had a right to ask her to move since she was clearly violating the law of 1.8m becuase she didnt feel like getting up and moving away from her friends.

$1:

Rather than climb out of the warm water onto the cool deck, out of range of her friends, Longuinho started nursing Camilla on the stairs, with her breasts above water.

So this makes her just as wrong in this situation as anyone else and pretty much eliminates her right to complain that her rights were violated.

Yes, they would have been well within their rights to ask her to move to the deck, 1.8m from the water. However, just because she didn't do this on her own, before she was approached and informed of policy (not regulation), doesn't mean she has no right to complain about being asked to move farther than she had to.

[Hyack]

What do you find within 1.8 metres of most pools.......nothing.....if she wants to sit on the pool deck and feed her baby ..fine! The pool owner offered the change room or the viewing gallery, which I think would be a lot more comfortable. I think the owner was being very accommodating on her part, while not obeying the WORD of the law.

[SigPig]

hurley_108 hurley_108:

Yes, they would have been well within their rights to ask her to move to the deck, 1.8m from the water. However, just because she didn't do this on her own, before she was approached and informed of policy (not regulation), doesn't mean she has no right to complain about being asked to move farther than she had to.

Isn't policy just a set of regualtions? I don't care what its called, she was out of bounds. Period.