[RUEZ]

DerbyX DerbyX:

RUEZ RUEZ:

did it become stealing once it was the Conservatives doing it and not the Libs?

No it didn't, in fact the other way round according to most of the cons. We dealt with this subject last year when I used the above information against the cons screaming about how the Libs stole the money.

I remember when the Libs dipped in, I thought it inapropriate only because they were also cutting back on benefits and making it harder for people to qualify.

[DerbyX]

RUEZ RUEZ:

DerbyX DerbyX:

RUEZ RUEZ:

did it become stealing once it was the Conservatives doing it and not the Libs?

No it didn't, in fact the other way round according to most of the cons. We dealt with this subject last year when I used the above information against the cons screaming about how the Libs stole the money.

I remember when the Libs dipped in, I thought it inapropriate only because they were also cutting back on benefits and making it harder for people to qualify.

The only fair complaint but thats neither here nor there for this discussion.

The fact is that despite all the howls of outrage over the Liberal practice to do so, Harper and the CPC did exactly the same because they needed the money to buy support.

Notice how many cons are simply ugnoring this action by their own party when it was an act worthy to bring down a Liberal gov't by itself?

See ridenhack behaviour. His first post is to simply dismiss this complaint as a political smear job and then he denied its existence despite the fact we had a massive thread (actually 2 or 3) concerning this very thing.

Then when the facts are laid bare he simply responds as he always does by blaming the Liberals, ignoring the fact the complaint is coming from the NDP.

The fact is that he called this practice stealing when the Liberals did it (as did every rank and file con) yet either fully condones it entirely when their own party does it or else falls back on their tried and true response "but the Liberals did it ......

I never considered it stealing and have never attacked the CPC for doing it. I have however attacked them for doing exactly what they complained the Liberals were doing.

[ShepherdsDog]

They all steal. The only real difference is who will do the least amount of damage to you.

[CanAm1]

I am Conservative. This crap went on here in the US too. Like the US both the cons and libs are guilty, I am sure Mulrooney and Clark both dipped their grubby paws into the fund. I know Trudeau did. The one here in the US is also bankrupt. I dont care what political stripe you are keep your dang paws off our money. I can't stand the NDP but he is right to pick on this, he just needs to throw in the Libs were doing it too to be fair and accurate.

[Johnny_Utah]

Jack Layton would rather have the money fund the Taliban..

[ridenrain]

There is a major difference.

You're union rag article simply alleges that money may have been taken and, rightfully so says that the fund has simply become too huge to manage properly.

My article is from a legitimate news source and shows that these PS unions are enacting legal measures against the Martin government to replace that money.

[ We are trying to reinstate the $30 billion the government confiscated. They took it, they grabbed the money and it went to government coffers and what they ultimately used it for is a big question mark," said Jose Aggrey, president of Canadian Association of Professional Employees. ]

When that lawsuit hits the press, who are you going to blame? Martin, who "saved Canada" or Harper, because this happened on his watch?

[DerbyX]

ridenrain ridenrain:

There is a major difference.

You're union rag article simply alleges that money may have been taken and, rightfully so says that the fund has simply become too huge to manage properly.

My article is from a legitimate news source and shows that these PS unions are enacting legal measures against the Martin government to replace that money.

[ We are trying to reinstate the $30 billion the government confiscated. They took it, they grabbed the money and it went to government coffers and what they ultimately used it for is a big question mark," said Jose Aggrey, president of Canadian Association of Professional Employees. ]

When that lawsuit hits the press, who are you going to blame? Martin, who "saved Canada" or Harper, because this happened on his watch?

The difference is that you simply cannot accept that Harper did exactly what he (and you) screamed was stealing. You cannot reconcile the fact that your CPC is responsible for its actions.

Who gets the blame? The federal gov't and if that gov't happens to be the very same CPC that has "stolen" from the EI fund for 3 years now gets held accountable then so be it. How can the Liberals be held accountable when they are not in office?

You just can't stand it that your party is as corrupt as you claim the Liberals are. If the EI fund wants the money back then no problem The gov't simply gives the fund back the money and simply reevaluates all tax returns and anybody who paid EI must then pay the amount in federal tax that the EI payments were deducted from.

End result will be no gain for any tax-payer but a net loss when taxes go up because of interest payments.

You simply cannot point to the Liberals as if it excuses Harpers actions because Harper is only to be held accountable for the 3 years he spent stealing from the fund. The Liberal were already held accountable when they were voted out which we are more then happy to do when it comes time to hold the CPC accountable.

[ridenrain]

Show me a news article that says that the CPC government took money from the EI program.

[DerbyX]

ridenrain ridenrain:

Show me a news article that says that the CPC government took money from the EI program.

Excuse me?

The criminal complaint against them proves that, hell just do the math (provide proof of work for benoit). Simply look at the spending and surplus between years and its obvious that they got a 13.5 billion dollar surplus by using that EI surplus under the established rules at the time.

You may not want to face the truth but just like little jonnys mother has to face the truth that her darling angel boy vandalized the neighbours car you have to face the truth that the CPC did exactly the same as the Liberals did despite howling against it.

I can reconcile that because I don't consider it stealing.

How will you reconcile Harper and the CPC using the EI surplus that way?

[hurley_108]

ridenrain ridenrain:

Show me a news article that says that the CPC government took money from the EI program.

There is no seperate account for EI. It's all general revenue. The "surplus" simply comes from having collected more in EI than paying out in benefits. There's no bank accoutn anywhere that Chretien or Martin made a withdrawal from, it's all just revenue. As such, by not creating such an account, and by continuing to pay out less in benefits than collecting in EI, the Conservatives are doing the exact same thing as the Liberals did.

$1:

Auditor General Sheila Fraser has repeatedly called on Ottawa to separately account for the EI surplus instead of plowing it into general coffers. The chief actuary of Human Resources has said that the EI program would not need more than a $15-billion cushion to meet needs even in hard times.

Link 1. Link 2.

[RPW]

I'm one of those "socialist" (gasp!) guys, but I'm getting to the point where we may as well open the vaults, because Canadian voters are scared shiftless at the thought a "socialist" might get in and "waste" all the money, that they will let any right-wingnut in to steal it instead.