[Benoit]

Heavy_Metal Heavy_Metal:

aaahhh you religious freaks are really a trip you know that.

Heavy metal is all about religion.

[ShepherdsDog]

Wrong kind of heavy metal. He's referring to the contaminants he consumed as a child.

[Benoit]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

Wrong kind of heavy metal. He's referring to the contaminants he consumed as a child.

Heavy metals in food and water are toxic for neurons. A person who ingests too much loses the mental capacity to refer to the truth.

[kenmore]

I am not going to argue over religion.. I know the history of and how the church of england and the protestant church began.. I am a catholic but I do not support celebacy....1545-63-Council of Trent states that celibacy and virginity are superior to marriage..the idea being that a man cannot serve two masters.. if you are a true servant of God then all your time should be in that service etc. and you wouldnt have time for a wife and family.. I do not agree. My sister is married to a minister and he has a large congregation in Mississauga.. And Benoit..I am sure the guys who interpreted the bible had an easier time deciphering it than I do trying to understand your posts..

[ShepherdsDog]

$1:

1545-63-Council of Trent states that celibacy and virginity are superior to marriage..the idea being that a man cannot serve two masters..

No...wrong again. The Church decided that celibacy would be a good way to get their hands on property and wealth. This isn't arguing religion, it's economics. If a man died his property would go to his children. No children or wife? Then it goes to the Church. Many of the early fathers of the Church were married with children, celibacy being a voluntary thing.

$1:

I know the history of and how the church of england and the protestant church began..

Obviously you don't know squat about history Kermit, as you would realize there is no 'Protestant' Church. The views of Protestant Christians are as varied as the flowers in a meadow.

$1:

1 Timothy 3
1This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

3Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

4One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;

5(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

6Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

7Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

[kenmore]

hmm no Protestant reformation? best tell Martin Luther... and I know something of religion..studied religions of the world as an elective at university.. grew up Catholic.. studied Cathocism.. brother inlaw has a masters in divinity.. my parents had 10 children.. one of which is a Jehovah"s witness.. one is a mormon.. what religion are you shepherd dog? do you know about the council of trent was about.. do you believe that the catholic church is the only true church? whats your thoughts .. just curious

[kenmore]

A Brief History of Celibacy in the
Catholic Church
First Century
Peter, the first pope, and the apostles that Jesus chose were, for the most part, married men. The New Testament implies that women presided at eucharistic meals in the early church.

Second and Third Century
Age of Gnosticism: light and spirit are good, darkness and material things are evil. A person cannot be married and be perfect. However, most priests were married.

Fourth Century
306-Council of Elvira, Spain, decree #43: a priest who sleeps with his wife the night before Mass will lose his job.
325-Council of Nicea: decreed that after ordination a priest could not marry. Proclaimed the Nicene Creed.
352-Council of Laodicea: women are not to be ordained. This suggests that before this time there was ordination of women.
385-Pope Siricius left his wife in order to become pope. Decreed that priests may no longer sleep with their wives.

Fifth Century
401-St. Augustine wrote, “Nothing is so powerful in drawing the spirit of a man downwards as the caresses of a woman.”

Sixth Century
567-2nd Council of Tours: any cleric found in bed with his wife would be excommunicated for a year and reduced to the lay state.
580-Pope Pelagius II: his policy was not to bother married priests as long as they did not hand over church property to wives or children.
590-604-Pope Gregory “the Great” said that all sexual desire is sinful in itself (meaning that sexual desire is intrinsically evil?).

Seventh Century
France: documents show that the majority of priest were married.

Eighth Century
St. Boniface reported to the pope that in Germany almost no bishop or priest was celibate.

Ninth Century
836-Council of Aix-la-Chapelle openly admitted that abortions and infanticide took place in convents and monasteries to cover up activities of uncelibate clerics.
St. Ulrich, a holy bishop, argued from scripture and common sense that the only way to purify the church from the worst excesses of celibacy was to permit priests to marry.

Eleventh Century
1045-Pope Boniface IX dispensed himself from celibacy and resigned in order to marry.
1074-Pope Gregory VII said anyone to be ordained must first pledge celibacy: ‘priests [must] first escape from the clutches of their wives.’
1095-Pope Urban II had priests’ wives sold into slavery, children were abandoned.

Twelfth Century
1123-Pope Calistus II: First Lateran Council decreed that clerical marriages were invalid.
1139-Pope Innocent II: Second Lateran Council confirmed the previous council’s decree.

Fourteenth Century
Bishop Pelagio complains that women are still ordained and hearing confessions.

Fifteenth Century
Transition; 50% of priests are married and accepted by the people.

Sixteenth Century
1545-63-Council of Trent states that celibacy and virginity are superior to marriage.
1517-Martin Luther.
1530-Henry VIII.

Seventeenth Century
Inquisition. Galileo. Newton.

Eighteenth Century
1776-American Declaration of Independence.
1789-French Revolution.

Nineteenth Century
1804-Napoleon.
1882-Darwin.
1847-Marx, Communist Manifesto.
1858-Freud.
1869-First Vatican Council; infallibility of pope.

Twentieth Century
1930-Pope Pius XI: sex can be good and holy.
1951-Pope Pius XII: married Lutheran pastor ordained catholic priest in Germany.
1962-Pope John XXIII: Vatican Council II; vernacular; marriage is equal to virginity.
1966-Pope Paul VI: celibacy dispensations.
1970s-Ludmilla Javorova and several other Czech women ordained to serve needs of women imprisoned by Communists.
1978-Pope John Paul II: puts a freeze on dispensations.
1983-New Canon Law.
1980-Married Anglican/Episcopal pastors are ordained as catholic priests in the U.S.; also in Canada and England in 1994.

[kenmore]

History sources:
Oxford Dictionary of Popes; H.C. Lea History of Sacerdotal Celibacy in the Christian Church 1957; E. Schillebeeckx The Church with a Human Face 1985; J. McSorley Outline History of the Church by Centuries 1957; F.A.Foy (Ed.) 1990 Catholic Almanac 1989; D.L. Carmody The Double Cross - Ordination, Abortion and Catholic Feminism 1986; P.K. Jewtt The Ordination of Women 1980; A.F. Ide God's Girls - Ordination of Women in the Early Christian & Gnostic Churches 1986; E. Schüssler Fiorenza In Memory of Her 1984; P. DeRosa Vicars of Christ 1988.

[ShepherdsDog]

I don't believe that there is any true Church, only true believers.

The Reformation was a series of events that occurred in different areas of Europe with people who had different beliefs. It didn't start with Luther, nor did it end with him. For many 'Protestants', the only commonality they shared was a belief that the bishop of Rome was a man and not infallible and that the Roman church had become corrupt and needed to be cleaned up. They felt that the bible was the final authority on matters not the poop. The Roman church tried to crush dissent for centuries through threats and violence. Guttenberg helped to clear away the ignorance that Rome used so well to keep its grip on the populace.

$1:

studied religions of the world as an elective at university..

You took a course? Whoopity fucking doo dah there. You should also take into consideration that Luther's excommunication was reversed in 1966 at Vatican II

[ShepherdsDog]

You can cut and paste....good for you. You still haven't explained your claim that Henry VIII used the KJ Bible to justify his divorce and establish the Church of England. But then I guess you learned that in thatr course you took on religion. Did you also find out if you were a servant of Xenu?

[kenmore]

go back and read my post sheepdog and dont put words in my mouth.. I never said Henry VIII us the king james bible for anything.. I said the church of england was started from that.. His daughter Eliz 1 named it the church of england.. he broke with rome to get a divorce..that the ONLY TRUE CHURCH wouldnt and still doesnt allow..

[ShepherdsDog]

$1:

what bible is that shepherdsdog? king james... the one written because Henry VIII wanted a divorce and broke with the catholic church to create the church of England?

Your words Kermit. A bible that wasn't published until 80 years after Henry VIII broke with Rome and established the Church of England. Are you mentally ill, as that would explain alot? You're done and have my permission to leave now.

[kenmore]

verse 18 of chapter 16 of the Gospel of Matthew, the "on this rock" passage. That passage is:
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter [Greek, Petros], and upon this rock [Greek, petra] I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. (King James Version) your bible.. which talks of the Primacy of Peter.. the catholic church is apostolic.. the current Pope follows the lineage of St.Peter and is the representative of Christ on earth.. is infallible.. St. Peter being the first bishop of rome.. Vatican II recognized the value of other Christian denominations.. but the validity of those is still debateable.

[ShepherdsDog]

nope....you're finished just like Rome.

[kenmore]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

nope....you're finished just like Rome.

I dont think Rome is far from finished...in what context ?
and you never did say what denomination you are ? it would be helpful to know