[N_Fiddledog]

I think I've said it before, but the proper way to read a CBC article is from the bottom up.

If you had taken my advice you would have seen this, Andy.

$1:

But experts on medical ethics, commenting on the proposal, said procedures to modify girls' genitals could not be compared to male circumcision because they are designed to control women and curb their sexual desire.

They also predicted that legalising more minimal procedures would generate a litany of legal, regulatory and medical problems.

Global campaigners against FGM said doctors should challenge harmful social norms, not condone them.

"Any form of FGM is a violation of a child's rights," said Adwoa Kwateng-Kluvitse, head of global advocacy at the charity FORWARD, which campaigns against FGM in Africa and Europe.

"Why would you put a little girl through that? There should be no medicalization of FGM. They [the gynecologists] are completely behind the times.

"This is very different to male circumcision."

In 2010, the American Academy of Pediatrics made a similar proposal. Within a month, the contentious statement was retracted.

In an email, the Society of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists of Canada said female genital cutting is recognized as a harmful practice and a violation of girls' and women's rights to life, physical integrity, and health.

Performing or assisting in female genital cutting is a criminal offence in Canada.

[herbie]

"I wish I had my foreskin back", said no man EVER....

whoops... except for some Germans in the 1940s.

[martin14]

Strutz Strutz:

Un-f*cking-believable.

$1:

Performing or assisting in female genital cutting is a criminal offence in Canada.

And it damn well better stay that way.

It's illegal in the UK as well.
Doesn't seem to stop them, or even slow them down.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014 ... -common-uk

Here, even the Red Star Guardian can't hide it.


What they work really hard trying to hide, is that the girls are not only being
mutilated by taking them home to get cut up, but now they get cut in the UK as well,
in groups with 'cutters' being imported.

Number of criminal prosecutions: ZERO.

So yes, the government in the UK is working really hard to stop this, it being illegal and all.

[Canadian_Mind]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

People say it's not the same thing... what makes it different? Male genital mutilation/circumcision you are cutting off the piece that provides the most sexual pleasure any different from committing genital mutilation on girls that results in the same effect.

I'm going to guess if you're saying that you're an uncircumcised male who might have read a flawed study one time.

http://www.livescience.com/27769-does-c ... asure.html

Also you don't seem to understand there are different types of Female genital mutilation.



The closest to male circumcision would be Type I above. The prepuce (hood skin of the clitoris) is removed.

The problems begin after that. In Type II the clitoris is removed. A male equivalent from a sexual pleasure aspect would be more like having your whole penis removed.

In type III they slice and dice clitoris, Labia minora and majora - inner lips and outer folds, then they sew up the opening leaving only enough room to pee or allow menstrual release.

Show me how type 2 or 3 is equivalent to Male circumcision.

Thanks for the lesson.

Type 1 seems very similar to circumcision. I thought type 1 was what this conversation was about?

I would rather not get into details, but i had the pleasure of speaking to a doctor who specialises in the penis, can't remember what the name is off the top of my head. The information about the skin on the head of the penis containing most of the receptors came from him. I doubt he'd have reason to lie to me about that.

[OnTheIce]

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

People say it's not the same thing... what makes it different? Male genital mutilation/circumcision you are cutting off the piece that provides the most sexual pleasure any different from committing genital mutilation on girls that results in the same effect.

With Andy on this, ban both.

Apples and oranges. There are ample benefits to circumcision of boys.

[raydan]

herbie herbie:

"I wish I had my foreskin back", said no man EVER....

whoops... except for some Germans in the 1940s.

Can't miss what you've never had.

[andyt]

herbie herbie:

"I wish I had my foreskin back", said no man EVER....

whoops... except for some Germans in the 1940s.

$1:

Many circumcised men subjected to involuntary genital cutting as infants or
children have expressed strong negative feelings about the violation of
bodily integrity that forced circumcision entails and their belief that
circumcision has hindered their sexual enjoyment as adults.(3,4,5,7,8) Loss of
body parts, including partial penile amputation, may trigger grief resulting
from altered body image or function, anxiety, depression, sexual problems,
avoidance of, or obsessive preoccupation with the loss.(4,5,9) Many men are
so unhappy with being circumcised that they have even resorted to either
surgical or non-surgical foreskin restoration methods, in order to recover at
least some of the sexual sensitivity lost to circumcision, and as a mechanism
to promote psychological healing.

http://epublications.bond.edu.au/cgi/vi ... greg_boyle

$1:

In a study by Lander and colleagues (1997), a control group of infants who received no anesthesia was used as a baseline to measure the effectiveness of different types of anesthesia during circumcision. The control group babies were in so much pain—some began choking and one even had a seizure—they decided it was unethical to continue. It is important to also consider the effects of post-operative pain in circumcised infants (regardless of whether anesthesia is used), which is described as “severe” and “persistent” (Howard et al., 1994). In addition to pain, there are other negative physical outcomes including possible infection and death (Van Howe, 1997, 2004).

Although some believe that babies “won’t remember” the pain, we now know that the body “remembers” as evidenced by studies which demonstrate that circumcised infants are more sensitive to pain later in life (Taddio et al., 1997). Research carried out using neonatal animals as a proxy to study the effects of pain on infants’ psychological development have found distinct behavioral patterns characterized by increased anxiety, altered pain sensitivity, hyperactivity, and attention problems (Anand & Scalzo, 2000). In another similar study, it was found that painful procedures in the neonatal period were associated with site-specific changes in the brain that have been found to be associated with mood disorders

The circumcision of children has myriad negative psychological consequences that the CDC has failed to consider. Removing healthy tissue in the absence of any medical need harms the patient and is a breach of medical providers’ ethical duty to the child. We believe that all people have a right to bodily autonomy and self-determination and deeply respect this fundamental tenet of international human rights law (UNESCO 2005). As children cannot advocate for themselves, they need adults to understand the complexities of their emotional experiences and provide them special protection. We oppose the CDC’s circumcision recommendation and encourage all parents to do the same in order to protect their children from physical and psychological harm.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/mo ... cal-damage

[BartSimpson]

andyt andyt:

Sure it is. Messing around with the genitals for no reason. Ban both, no exceptions. You want it, wait until you're an adult. Fuck cultural sensitivity.

I'm with Andy on this one.

But I will say that if an adult man wants his schlong trimmed then that's his business.

Doing it to a child should be illegal.

[raydan]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

andyt andyt:

Sure it is. Messing around with the genitals for no reason. Ban both, no exceptions. You want it, wait until you're an adult. Fuck cultural sensitivity.

I'm with Andy on this one.

But I will say that if an adult man wants his schlong trimmed then that's his business.

Doing it to a child should be illegal.

Agreed, if at 18 years old you want to go ahead with it, that's becomes your choice.

[2Cdo]

raydan raydan:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

andyt andyt:

Sure it is. Messing around with the genitals for no reason. Ban both, no exceptions. You want it, wait until you're an adult. Fuck cultural sensitivity.

I'm with Andy on this one.

But I will say that if an adult man wants his schlong trimmed then that's his business.

Doing it to a child should be illegal.

Agreed, if at 18 years old you want to go ahead with it, that's becomes your choice.

I had a friend get it done for medical reasons when he was in his early 20's.


He was rather uncomfortable for a couple of weeks.

[raydan]

2Cdo 2Cdo:

I had a friend get it done for medical reasons when he was in his early 20's.


He was rather uncomfortable for a couple of weeks.

I had a friend get it done when he was in his 60s... "uncomfortable" doesn't cover it.

[andyt]

raydan raydan:

2Cdo 2Cdo:

I had a friend get it done for medical reasons when he was in his early 20's.


He was rather uncomfortable for a couple of weeks.

I had a friend get it done when he was in his 60s... "uncomfortable" doesn't cover it.

"Must not think of Kate Upton." "Think of Rosie O'Donell." "Yes, Katie O'Donell." "No, I mean Rosie Upton." "aaaaaagh."

[Brenda]

So we're circumsizing baby boys for their future sexual pleasure? (That's my conclusion if you compare male to female circumcision...)

There's no reason to touch genitals (male or female) other than to clean it...
Unless medically necessary, of course.

For a woman's sexual pleasure (well, mine... can't speak for another woman... or man for that matter), there is no difference between a circumsized man or an uncircumsized man.

[Canadian_Mind]

2Cdo 2Cdo:

raydan raydan:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

I'm with Andy on this one.

But I will say that if an adult man wants his schlong trimmed then that's his business.

Doing it to a child should be illegal.

Agreed, if at 18 years old you want to go ahead with it, that's becomes your choice.

I had a friend get it done for medical reasons when he was in his early 20's.


He was rather uncomfortable for a couple of weeks.

And this seems to be the justification for circumcision in a lot of circumstances. There may be complications, so might as well cut it off early to prevent them.

At first it sounds reasonable, but you could apply the same rational to many other body parts who's requirement is minimal/none and there is a chance for future complications. Off the top of my head I can cite spleen, appendix, and tonsils as examples. But we don't remove/alter those at birth, only if they become an issue. So what makes the foreskin so special? You could stretch the rational a bit and logically if we were to remove every part at birth that could become an issue later, and would be more uncomfortable if dealt with during adulthood, everything would be removed.

[OnTheIce]

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

And this seems to be the justification for circumcision in a lot of circumstances. There may be complications, so might as well cut it off early to prevent them.

At first it sounds reasonable, but you could apply the same rational to many other body parts who's requirement is minimal/none and there is a chance for future complications. Off the top of my head I can cite spleen, appendix, and tonsils as examples. But we don't remove/alter those at birth, only if they become an issue. So what makes the foreskin so special? You could stretch the rational a bit and logically if we were to remove every part at birth that could become an issue later, and would be more uncomfortable if dealt with during adulthood, everything would be removed.

Because it's pretty much useless. You can't compare foreskin to internal organs.

In less than 5 minutes for a procedure that one doesn't remember, you have a decreased risk of UTI's, STD's, penile cancer and prevention of a variety of conditions that sometimes lead to circumcision as a teen or adult.