[DrCaleb]

$1:

Buyers of Canadian wheat say quality lower than during board's monopoly

Buyers of Canadian wheat are increasingly complaining about quality ever since Ottawa changed how its biggest crop is sold and inspected, raising the risk the world's third largest exporter will lose sales to rivals like the United States.

Problems include underweight shipments, lower-than-expected protein content and gluten strength in the wheat, and even the occasional mixture of wheat with other agricultural products.

In October, Singapore-based Prima Group found 850 kilograms of peas in a 25-tonne wheat shipment. A metric tonne is the equivalent of about 1,000 kilograms (2,200 pounds.)

"We don't know what's going on in the system here," said Prima advisor Derek Sliworsky in Winnipeg, who said that while not all Canadian wheat shipments suffer from poor quality, "we don't have these problems from other origins." Prima buys between 500,000 and 1 million tonnes of Canadian wheat a year to produce flour at its mills in Singapore, Sri Lanka and China.

Problems have grown since 2012, when Ottawa stripped the Canadian Wheat Board of its centralized role in marketing wheat, said Sliworsky, who used to work for the wheat board. The following year, Ottawa cut one-third of the workforce of the Canadian Grain Commission, the agency responsible for quality.

Randy Dennis, the commission's chief grain inspector, also said that since 2012, buyers have increasingly complained about the quality of wheat exports, especially about gluten properties.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/buyers- ... -1.2858952

[peck420]

Just to be a shit disturber...

$1:

Earl Geddes, CEO of the Canadian International Grains Institute (CIGI), says one thing that may have seemed to change is the volume of quality complaints, particularly from overseas customers. In reality, Geddes does not believe there has been a significant increase in complaints, just an increase in the number of people who handle them. Before August 1, 2012, all complaints were directed to the CWB, who redirected them to either CIGI or the Canadian Grain Commission based on the nature of the complaint. "Complaints had never been this visible before,” says Geddes, “and that may be the part that surprised a lot of people." But Geddes wasn’t surprised. He says CIGI anticipated this could pose an area of concern for the industry and started offering training to export companies well before proposed changes came into effect.

http://www.ontariograinfarmer.ca/MAGAZINE.aspx?aid=765

[Xort]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I'm not opposed to them selling a product for profit, but an addiction is not freedom. Cheap carbs, high fat foods, and glucose added to food have all been shown to be addictive. Obesity is one of the largest causes of premature death in Western society.

So if a product has the potential to be addictive people shouldn't have the right to select to buy or not buy that product it must be controlled?

I'm not sure I'm picking up what you are putting down. Food is addictive in that you will die without out. That's a hell of a dependency if you ask me and let me twist meanings enough.

Personal preference isn't the same as addiction. Most processed foods are low fat, or at least lowerer in fat than in the 1970s when the US decided that fat was the enemy and replaced it with sugars.

But lets just drop it for now and keep on topic.

$1:

$1:

Stanford says the CWB doesn't need a small, Canadian-owned partner like FNA. It needs one that can bring things such as West Coast port facilities to the table.
"They want a partner right away. You can only use other people's facilities for so long," he said. "A long-term, viable solution needs an international company."

Sounds to me that the CWB has a specific buyer in mind. So no matter what the farmers do, no matter how fair their bid - it will be rejected.

I am very much opposed to a Crown Corporation being sold off at less than fair value and used to further a near market monopsony. If a bid is fair, it should be considered. If the FNA thinks they can make a go of it - let them try!

Again I'm not sure how that proves farmers are not able to compete in a fair way. Just that one company doesn't want to be bought by them.

Are their laws that stop them from making their own collective broker? If no, then their isn't a case you can make honestly that they are being stopped from competing in a fair market by being unable to make a collective marketer.

As for the CWB not wanting to be bought by anyone other than their selected buyer, so what? That's hardly an unheard of practice in a free market.

The solution is to raise their price offered. That's how business works.

$1:

Then you have not been paying attention. Farmers can only sell to companies wanting to buy. There was that whole kerfuffle over the summer because Grain companies were not picking up farmers crops, and legislation had to be brought in to force them to make rail cars available for the record 2013 harvest.

Sounds like farmers are facing the reality of a fair market, where other operators don't want their low profit cargo, and had the government step in and force the companies to ship their unwanted cargo.

I'm aware that our rail system isn't a free market and is bound by laws and regulations in terms to what they must do.

But in a fair competitive market farmers would have to either have contracts forcing their cargo to be moved, or buying the right at a premium to ship their cargo first.

A fair free market can be a nasty place.

$1:

If the Farmers own their own rail cars by buying the CWB, then they have the ability to fairly compete. (also from the article)

That doesn't add up logically. They can own all the cars in the world, but without a railroad company willing to haul them they don't go anywhere.

$1:

I would have made the CWB non-manditory, but I also would not have dismantled it, leaving it available to the farmers who wanted to use it. Free market, sink or swim.

What has been removed from the CWB that is dismantling it? Doesn't the CBW still own most of their equipment and property?

It's set to be privatised in full in 2 years(?) which will see it gone a s crown corporation. But I see no reason why the 40% or so of farmers that wanted to stay with the board couldn't form their own new venture to market their products.

Also I'm not sure how this is such a huge problem given the larger amount of canola produced. Canola producers don't seem to be constantly running into problems with everything, or at least no one is reporting about it.

[DrCaleb]

Xort Xort:

So if a product has the potential to be addictive people shouldn't have the right to select to buy or not buy that product it must be controlled?

I'm not sure I'm picking up what you are putting down. Food is addictive in that you will die without out. That's a hell of a dependency if you ask me and let me twist meanings enough.

Personal preference isn't the same as addiction. Most processed foods are low fat, or at least lowerer in fat than in the 1970s when the US decided that fat was the enemy and replaced it with sugars.

Personal preference doesn't enter into it. Cheap meat, sugars and carbs because of the aforementioned subsidies means that some low income families can only afford these things. These foods have been shown to be both addictive and harmful. So was tobacco, and that's turned out so well!

And 'fat free' is usually bullshit, and a sign of higher salt or added sugars.

Xort Xort:

But lets just drop it for now and keep on topic.

Again I'm not sure how that proves farmers are not able to compete in a fair way.

. . .

Sounds like farmers are facing the reality of a fair market, where other operators don't want their low profit cargo, and had the government step in and force the companies to ship their unwanted cargo.

I'm aware that our rail system isn't a free market and is bound by laws and regulations in terms to what they must do.

Wait, you can see that farmers had to sell for decades to the CWB who had legislated access to the rails and markets - but you don't see how they no longer are in a competitive position when all that access is removed and taken back by big corporations with no interest in giving market access to farmers?

Is this not a classic example of market domination? Cargill and the others will simply choke them off and buy up their farms, because the farmers couldn't sell their product to anyone.

Xort Xort:

But in a fair competitive market farmers would have to either have contracts forcing their cargo to be moved, or buying the right at a premium to ship their cargo first.

A fair free market can be a nasty place.

$1:

If only it were a free market. But as you point out - without rail access it isn't.

Xort Xort:

What has been removed from the CWB that is dismantling it? Doesn't the CBW still own most of their equipment and property?

It's set to be privatised in full in 2 years(?) which will see it gone a s crown corporation. But I see no reason why the 40% or so of farmers that wanted to stay with the board couldn't form their own new venture to market their products.

Again, access. With rail cars, they can ship their own grain to markets. Without them, they have to sell to graineries.

Xort Xort:

Also I'm not sure how this is such a huge problem given the larger amount of canola produced. Canola producers don't seem to be constantly running into problems with everything, or at least no one is reporting about it.

That's why it's called the "Wheat" board, not the "Canola" board. Many farmers went to canola or pulses to avoid having to deal with the CWB.

[Xort]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Cheap meat, sugars and carbs because of the aforementioned subsidies means that some low income families can only afford these things.

Between cheap meat, cheap carbs and vegetables which are so cheap they don't need a subsidy that seems like a reasonable diet.

Do you want people to not eat meat and carbs, or just to pay more for it?
Putting aside argument about if a subsidy actually does lower a price or not.

$1:

Wait, you can see that farmers had to sell for decades to the CWB who had legislated access to the rails and markets - but you don't see how they no longer are in a competitive position when all that access is removed and taken back by big corporations with no interest in giving market access to farmers?

They can form together into a bidding block if they want to try and secure contracts with the railroads.

A free market means a business doesn't have to deal with you if they don't want.

The legal mandate to only sell to the CWB was wildly unfair, and against the idea of a market economy.

Now the farmers are looking at having to deal with railroads. It's perfectly competitive to have a business ignore your business and not want to deal with you.

Again, railroads because they are build on granted public lands are regulated by the government to carry all freight and follow government regulation. So long as they are following those regulations if they ignore cargo, that's just part of the competitive process.

$1:

Is this not a classic example of market domination? Cargill and the others will simply choke them off and buy up their farms, because the farmers couldn't sell their product to anyone.

Welcome to a competitive free market. The canola farmers seem to be able to get their crop shipped, why are wheat and barely farmers having so much trouble?

$1:

If only it were a free market. But as you point out - without rail access it isn't.

Rail access isn't a right, not being able to book cars is part of the free market. It's a free market, they can ship their crop by any means they want. Having poor access due to extreme weather limiting train sizes and massive storms is something I think farmers could accept given the roll weather plays in their business.

So long as the railroads are in compliance with the law what they do is fine by me.

Also their seemed to be some blame going to the elevator operators in the ports, not clearing cargo fast enough to make room for more incoming cars.

$1:

It's set to be privatised in full in 2 years(?) which will see it gone a s crown corporation. But I see no reason why the 40% or so of farmers that wanted to stay with the board couldn't form their own new venture to market their products.

I don't either, why don't they?

$1:

Again, access. With rail cars, they can ship their own grain to markets. Without them, they have to sell to graineries.

Rail cars don't move on there own, they are pulled by engines operated by the railroad company, and the they run on railroads owned and operated by that company. Just having the cars doesn't mean their products get shipped. The issue isn't cars, it's network access. The CWB may have had special government priority to ship their cargo, but that's not a fair market practice.

$1:

That's why it's called the "Wheat" board, not the "Canola" board. Many farmers went to canola or pulses to avoid having to deal with the CWB.

So why aren't canola farmers in the news all the time about how they can't ship their harvest? Is it not happening to them or is the media just ignoring them because they can't score hits off the current government because their was no CCB?

If I had it my way the CWB would have been kept as a crown corporation but without a legal monopoly on western farmers. Then again CN and CP would also still be crown corporations, along side Petro-Canada and our telephone providers.

But people seem to hate socialism and are dead set to sell everything off.

[DrCaleb]

Xort Xort:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Cheap meat, sugars and carbs because of the aforementioned subsidies means that some low income families can only afford these things.

Between cheap meat, cheap carbs and vegetables which are so cheap they don't need a subsidy that seems like a reasonable diet.

Do you want people to not eat meat and carbs, or just to pay more for it?
Putting aside argument about if a subsidy actually does lower a price or not.

Vegetables are not cheap. Meat is cheap because the subsidized corn that goes to feed animals makes it cheap. (Animals that did not evolve to eat corn.) Go into a supermarket some time and compare the price per kilo of raw potatoes to frozen french fries. Compare a frozen pizza to the ingredients you'd need to make your own comparable pie. Compare the cost of salad ingredients to the price of a fast food meal. I can get a half decent frozen pizza for about $4 each, and it's will feed a couple people. There is no way I can feed two or three people salads for that price.

Meat is part of our diet, but it's become too large a part of our diet. It's not my recommendation, but that of dieticians that we should eat more vegetables, and far less meat and carbs. Animals also contribute to a lot of the pollution that we see in modern farming. From pesticides and fertilizer to feed them, to the special hell that are feedlots, we'd go a long way to reducing the conditions we place on animals if we ate fewer of them. The bonus being, it would be better for our own health if we did.

If someone keeps 100 cats in their house, we think the person has a serious problem. If they keep 100 cows, we call it a 'feedlot'.

http://www.ted.com/talks/mark_bittman_o ... hat_we_eat

Xort Xort:

$1:

Wait, you can see that farmers had to sell for decades to the CWB who had legislated access to the rails and markets - but you don't see how they no longer are in a competitive position when all that access is removed and taken back by big corporations with no interest in giving market access to farmers?

They can form together into a bidding block if they want to try and secure contracts with the railroads.

A free market means a business doesn't have to deal with you if they don't want.

The legal mandate to only sell to the CWB was wildly unfair, and against the idea of a market economy.

Now the farmers are looking at having to deal with railroads.

Again, railroads because they are build on granted public lands are regulated by the government to carry all freight and follow government regulation. So long as they are following those regulations if they ignore cargo, that's just part of the competitive process.

The farmers don't deal with the railroads directly. That's what the CWB was for. The farmers sell to graineries, the graineries hire railcars to move the grain to ports, and the ports ship them out. The CWB was made to streamline that whole process.

Xort Xort:

It's perfectly competitive to have a business ignore your business and not want to deal with you.

Really? When a competitor uses their monopoly to remove your ability to sell your product on the market, that's competition? Or anti-competitive behaviour?

Xort Xort:

$1:

Is this not a classic example of market domination? Cargill and the others will simply choke them off and buy up their farms, because the farmers couldn't sell their product to anyone.

Welcome to a competitive free market. The canola farmers seem to be able to get their crop shipped, why are wheat and barely farmers having so much trouble?

Canola doesn't get shipped overseas. It gets sent to a plant to be crushed and turned to oil. Farmers can even do that themselves.

Xort Xort:

$1:

If only it were a free market. But as you point out - without rail access it isn't.

Rail access isn't a right, not being able to book cars is part of the free market. It's a free market, they can ship their crop by any means they want. Having poor access due to extreme weather limiting train sizes and massive storms is something I think farmers could accept given the roll weather plays in their business.

So long as the railroads are in compliance with the law what they do is fine by me.

Also their seemed to be some blame going to the elevator operators in the ports, not clearing cargo fast enough to make room for more incoming cars.

No, they can only ship their product to companies that want to buy it. If the graneries don't want to buy the farmers grain because they are full, because they can't get railcars to come and get the extra grain - the farmer is stuck with silos of rotting grain being eaten by mice.

Access to the CWB would give farmers end to end coverage so they could ship their product to markets. The same end to end coverage their competitors have now.

Xort Xort:

Xort Xort:

It's set to be privatised in full in 2 years(?) which will see it gone a s crown corporation. But I see no reason why the 40% or so of farmers that wanted to stay with the board couldn't form their own new venture to market their products.

I don't either, why don't they?

They obviously can. But they've spend most of their lives building up the CWB. Why not buy it, turn it private and use it to enhance their own business? Why re-invent the wheel, when the cart is already built and for sale? The main reason to buy the CWB is the intangible that many companies have - "Goodwill". The CWB was the largest marketing board on the planet. That comes with a customer list, and contacts, and a reputation that is difficult to put a price on and takes decades to develop.

Xort Xort:

$1:

Again, access. With rail cars, they can ship their own grain to markets. Without them, they have to sell to graineries.

Rail cars don't move on there own, they are pulled by engines operated by the railroad company, and the they run on railroads owned and operated by that company. Just having the cars doesn't mean their products get shipped. The issue isn't cars, it's network access. The CWB may have had special government priority to ship their cargo, but that's not a fair market practice.

There was talk recently of farmers buying parts of unused tracks and engines to run their own railway, just like that.

Xort Xort:

$1:

That's why it's called the "Wheat" board, not the "Canola" board. Many farmers went to canola or pulses to avoid having to deal with the CWB.

So why aren't canola farmers in the news all the time about how they can't ship their harvest? Is it not happening to them or is the media just ignoring them because they can't score hits off the current government because their was no CCB?

If I had it my way the CWB would have been kept as a crown corporation but without a legal monopoly on western farmers. Then again CN and CP would also still be crown corporations, along side Petro-Canada and our telephone providers.

But people seem to hate socialism and are dead set to sell everything off.

On that at least, we agree. Some things are best done privately, some things only the economy of scale that governments provide makes sense.

[Xort]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Vegetables are not cheap. Meat is cheap because the subsidized corn that goes to feed animals makes it cheap.

I can buy a 3 meal serving (large cereal bowl full to the top) salad for $0.99 my bill says 340g. I buy meat for about $11 (+/- $5) per kilogram.

$1:

Go into a supermarket some time and compare the price per kilo of raw potatoes to frozen french fries.

Depending on sale prices unprocessed potatoes are very cheap. Although $2 for 1kg of processed potatoes is a reasonable price for me. That's at least 3 meal sized servings.

$1:

Compare a frozen pizza to the ingredients you'd need to make your own comparable pie.

It's cheaper to make your own, but I'm not going to make my own dough that takes too much time.

$1:

Compare the cost of salad ingredients to the price of a fast food meal. I can get a half decent frozen pizza for about $4 each, and it's will feed a couple people. There is no way I can feed two or three people salads for that price.

Well for $4 you would get 1.36kg of premade salad. That's enough to feed many people.
In terms of weight to cost veggies are cheap, also this is Canadian price so maybe not great for looking at things in the US. Your pizza is more expensive because of the price raising law on dairy products.

$1:

Meat is part of our diet, but it's become too large a part of our diet. It's not my recommendation, but that of dieticians that we should eat more vegetables, and far less meat and carbs.

And yet even eating as we do people have never lived longer. Funny that.

$1:

Animals also contribute to a lot of the pollution that we see in modern farming. From pesticides and fertilizer to feed them, to the special hell that are feedlots, we'd go a long way to reducing the conditions we place on animals if we ate fewer of them. The bonus being, it would be better for our own health if we did.

Welcome to the free market.

$1:

The farmers don't deal with the railroads directly. That's what the CWB was for. The farmers sell to graineries, the graineries hire railcars to move the grain to ports, and the ports ship them out. The CWB was made to streamline that whole process.

Some do some do not. Depends on the size of the farming operation. Many granaries are owned by farmer co-ops. Farmers have been making collectives for as long as we have had farming.

$1:

Really? When a competitor uses their monopoly to remove your ability to sell your product on the market, that's competition? Or anti-competitive behaviour?

The end result of free competition is monopoly.

$1:

No, they can only ship their product to companies that want to buy it. If the graneries don't want to buy the farmers grain because they are full, because they can't get railcars to come and get the extra grain - the farmer is stuck with silos of rotting grain being eaten by mice.

Maybe farmers should seek out more markets to sell into.

$1:

Access to the CWB would give farmers end to end coverage so they could ship their product to markets. The same end to end coverage their competitors have now.

What competitors are you talking about? The competitor to a farmer is a farmer.
Even better, what about farmers outside of the west? How do they sell their wheat and barely?

$1:

They obviously can. But they've spend most of their lives building up the CWB.

They spend their life being forced to sell to the CWB at whatever price the CWB wanted to pay them. That's not the same as building the CWB into something great.

$1:

Why not buy it, turn it private and use it to enhance their own business? Why re-invent the wheel, when the cart is already built and for sale? The main reason to buy the CWB is the intangible that many companies have - "Goodwill". The CWB was the largest marketing board on the planet. That comes with a customer list, and contacts, and a reputation that is difficult to put a price on and takes decades to develop.

Because the farmers are not offering enough money.

[DrCaleb]

Xort Xort:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Vegetables are not cheap. Meat is cheap because the subsidized corn that goes to feed animals makes it cheap.

I can buy a 3 meal serving (large cereal bowl full to the top) salad for $0.99 my bill says 340g. I buy meat for about $11 (+/- $5) per kilogram.

Where the heck do you shop? 99 cents for what, Iceberg lettuce? So, 2 or 3 cups per bowl. . . how do you expect anyone to live on 14 to 21 calories worth of lettuce?

I can buy ground beef for $1.99 per pound. (I wouldn't eat it, but I can) and that works out to (per cup) about 250 calories per 1/4 pound (110g). That will keep a person alive. Broccoli at $2/pound or $3.70/kg, you'd need 700g for that kind of calorie count. Vegetables are expensive.

Xort Xort:

$1:

Go into a supermarket some time and compare the price per kilo of raw potatoes to frozen french fries.

Depending on sale prices unprocessed potatoes are very cheap. Although $2 for 1kg of processed potatoes is a reasonable price for me. That's at least 3 meal sized servings.

And you can get 1.5kg of fries for $3 - $5 depending on sales. It'll feed a mom and 2 kids for a week, as a side dish.

Xort Xort:

$1:

Compare a frozen pizza to the ingredients you'd need to make your own comparable pie.

It's cheaper to make your own, but I'm not going to make my own dough that takes too much time.

Not even close. The cheese alone is $6 - $8.

Xort Xort:

$1:

Compare the cost of salad ingredients to the price of a fast food meal. I can get a half decent frozen pizza for about $4 each, and it's will feed a couple people. There is no way I can feed two or three people salads for that price.

Well for $4 you would get 1.36kg of premade salad. That's enough to feed many people.
In terms of weight to cost veggies are cheap, also this is Canadian price so maybe not great for looking at things in the US. Your pizza is more expensive because of the price raising law on dairy products.

1.3kg of lettuce is still only 150 calories. Total. You'd have many starving people at that party.

Xort Xort:

$1:

Meat is part of our diet, but it's become too large a part of our diet. It's not my recommendation, but that of dieticians that we should eat more vegetables, and far less meat and carbs.

And yet even eating as we do people have never lived longer. Funny that.

And more people dying early of obesity than ever before. Funny that.

Xort Xort:

$1:

Animals also contribute to a lot of the pollution that we see in modern farming. From pesticides and fertilizer to feed them, to the special hell that are feedlots, we'd go a long way to reducing the conditions we place on animals if we ate fewer of them. The bonus being, it would be better for our own health if we did.

Welcome to the free market.

It is said the true capitalist will gladly sell you the rope you use to hang him.

Xort Xort:

$1:

The farmers don't deal with the railroads directly. That's what the CWB was for. The farmers sell to graineries, the graineries hire railcars to move the grain to ports, and the ports ship them out. The CWB was made to streamline that whole process.

Some do some do not. Depends on the size of the farming operation. Many granaries are owned by farmer co-ops. Farmers have been making collectives for as long as we have had farming.

And big Agra has been buying granaries and silos for decades. And when the farmers go bust, they buy the farms too. Their method of collectivization.

Xort Xort:

$1:

Really? When a competitor uses their monopoly to remove your ability to sell your product on the market, that's competition? Or anti-competitive behaviour?

The end result of free competition is monopoly.

At which time, competition ends. Hence the need for government regulations to prevent monopolies.

Xort Xort:

$1:

No, they can only ship their product to companies that want to buy it. If the graneries don't want to buy the farmers grain because they are full, because they can't get railcars to come and get the extra grain - the farmer is stuck with silos of rotting grain being eaten by mice.

Maybe farmers should seek out more markets to sell into.

What a wonderfully Ryandian idea! So where do these magical markets that aren't already dominated by big Agra come from?

Xort Xort:

$1:

Access to the CWB would give farmers end to end coverage so they could ship their product to markets. The same end to end coverage their competitors have now.

What competitors are you talking about? The competitor to a farmer is a farmer.
Even better, what about farmers outside of the west? How do they sell their wheat and barely?

The competition I mean are the factory farms, owned by the same companies that own the whole chain from the granaries to the ports and ships that deliver the grain.

Excellent question about selling grain. Since I never cared, because all my experience is with farmers in the West, perhaps you can elaborate? Here's a primer I found:

http://www.cargillag.ca/sell-grain/grai ... g-services

Oh, wait! That's the big Agra I was mentioning . . .

Xort Xort:

$1:

They obviously can. But they've spend most of their lives building up the CWB.

They spend their life being forced to sell to the CWB at whatever price the CWB wanted to pay them. That's not the same as building the CWB into something great.

It's exactly the same thing. A little bit of their hard work is what the CWB used to grow. Why should some big Agra company get the assets that the Crown and the Farmers built, just because of ideology?

Xort Xort:

$1:

Why not buy it, turn it private and use it to enhance their own business? Why re-invent the wheel, when the cart is already built and for sale? The main reason to buy the CWB is the intangible that many companies have - "Goodwill". The CWB was the largest marketing board on the planet. That comes with a customer list, and contacts, and a reputation that is difficult to put a price on and takes decades to develop.

Because the farmers are not offering enough money.

Not according to the story. Farmers will not be allowed to buy it, no matter how much they offer. Because Ideology.

[raydan]

I don't get what the problem is having farmers run the wheat board. Doesn't it become something like a Co-op? We have a few farmer co-ops here in Québec... all maple syrup production is run by one. Mind you, nothing comes close to the size of the wheat board.

[andyt]

Because if they are successful it would argue against the abolition of the wheat board in the first place, and half that farmers that argued against the wheat board will be clamoring to get back in the first time they do worse than they did under the old wheat board. Co-op are just too close to communism to suit the dogma of Stevo. He wants to salt the earth, so in the future the wheat board isn't resurrected as a government entity, as it could easily be.

[wildrosegirl]

The CWB was shut down for one simple reason. Control.

The food industry will now be controlled by the government, as will shortages and prices. Guaranteed, the farmer will get screwed at his end and the consumer will be forced to bend over even further. That's how the game works.

You really want to know the impact this will have? Go talk to a farmer who's been in the business for 20+ years and ask him how the system has changed and how it's affecting his business.

You'll be ready to hurl by the end of the conversation.

We are biting the very hands that feed us.

[andyt]

wildrosegirl wildrosegirl:

The CWB was shut down for one simple reason. Control.

The food industry will now be controlled by the government, as will shortages and prices. Guaranteed, the farmer will get screwed at his end and the consumer will be forced to bend over even further. That's how the game works.

You really want to know the impact this will have? Go talk to a farmer who's been in the business for 20+ years and ask him how the system has changed and how it's affecting his business.

You'll be ready to hurl by the end of the conversation.

We are biting the very hands that feed us.

How will shutting down the wheat board increase govt control? Seems to me it will increase the power of big agribusiness to control the food "industry." I have no doubt this will lead to farmers and consumers being screwed, I just don't see how it will be the govt doing the screwing.

[wildrosegirl]

andyt andyt:

wildrosegirl wildrosegirl:

The CWB was shut down for one simple reason. Control.

The food industry will now be controlled by the government, as will shortages and prices. Guaranteed, the farmer will get screwed at his end and the consumer will be forced to bend over even further. That's how the game works.

You really want to know the impact this will have? Go talk to a farmer who's been in the business for 20+ years and ask him how the system has changed and how it's affecting his business.

You'll be ready to hurl by the end of the conversation.

We are biting the very hands that feed us.

How will shutting down the wheat board increase govt control? Seems to me it will increase the power of big agribusiness to control the food "industry." I have no doubt this will lead to farmers and consumers being screwed, I just don't see how it will be the govt doing the screwing.

By shutting down the wheat board. You don't think those agribusinesses greased a few palms to make that happen? The great circle of political life.

[andyt]

Again, that puts control in agribusinesses hands, not the govt. As for greasing palms, quite possible, but this govt would do this for purely ideological reasons, ie govt always bad, private always good, no grease required. So again, I question your premise that this leads to more govt control - the very opposite I would say, in an area where govt control seems to have worked very well for most farmers.

[wildrosegirl]

andyt andyt:

Again, that puts control in agribusinesses hands, not the govt. As for greasing palms, quite possible, but this govt would do this for purely ideological reasons, ie govt always bad, private always good, no grease required. So again, I question your premise that this leads to more govt control - the very opposite I would say, in an area where govt control seems to have worked very well for most farmers.

Go talk to a long time farmer. He can explain it to you in depth.

I have neither the time, nor the desire, to explain the progression in depth.