|
Author |
Topic Options
|
Posts: 13404
Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:22 pm
peck420 peck420: Who cares what the percentage is?
Let's take a quick peek at what the modern Olympics is about:
Help to build a better world through sport practised in a spirit of peace, excellence, friendship and respect.
Banning an willing participant, that adheres to the rules of the sport, goes directly against the fundamental tenants of the Olympic spirit.
Fuck Russia on this one. Agreed but boycotting the games hurts hundreds who have devoted their lives to competing in the Olympics. Go to the games, hold your nose and ... fuck the Russians.
|
Posts: 53473
Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:28 pm
peck420 peck420: Who cares what the percentage is?
Let's take a quick peek at what the modern Olympics is about:
Help to build a better world through sport practised in a spirit of peace, excellence, friendship and respect.
Banning an willing participant, that adheres to the rules of the sport, goes directly against the fundamental tenants of the Olympic spirit.
Fuck Russia on this one. Not to defend Russia here, but when did they ban any athlete?
|
peck420
Forum Super Elite
Posts: 2577
Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:38 pm
Jabberwalker Jabberwalker: Agreed but boycotting the games hurts hundreds who have devoted their lives to competing in the Olympics. Go to the games, hold your nose and ... fuck the Russians. Why? If I showed up at the games, ready to compete and win, and I found out that some of my competitors were dissuaded from coming, due to Russian LBGT issues...what kind of victory do I achieve? If I want to prove that I am the best, I want access to all of my competition, I want to beat them all. I don't want to have lingering doubts about whether so and so may have beaten me, etc. To me, that wouldn't be worth the trip, I would rather spend my time training until I could face all of my competition.
|
peck420
Forum Super Elite
Posts: 2577
Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:41 pm
DrCaleb DrCaleb: Not to defend Russia here, but when did they ban any athlete? Is banning an athlete any different from creating a situation where they are afraid to even show up?
|
Posts: 53473
Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:55 pm
peck420 peck420: DrCaleb DrCaleb: Not to defend Russia here, but when did they ban any athlete? Is banning an athlete any different from creating a situation where they are afraid to even show up? Well, yes. Yes it is. As Russia has said, if athletes abide by their rules and do not discuss 'matters of non traditional sexual relations', there will be no problems. Even if athletes don't abide by this, there will still be no problems. People were encouraged not to discuss Tiennaman Square while in China, and no one seemed to have a problem with that. No one balked at following China's very strict laws when visiting them for the summer Olympics. In Canada I think some times we forget that our cultural history only goes back a short time to some people; 1967, 1867, the 1500s. Some think Russia and equate them with the Soviet Union, and think back to 1917, 1989 etc. But Russia has 5000 years of recorded history. It has it's own mythology, it's own religons. And a very deep seated culture of 'leave me alone'. If athletes don't want to abide by Russias' laws, that is their right. Boycott away. But don't assume a culture as old as Russia will give a rat's ass if some atheletes don't show up, just like they didn't in 1980 when the Olympics were in Moscow. If we're going to boycott them, do it for actual reasons, for what they are actually doing. Not for what we think they are doing.
|
Posts: 65472
Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:11 pm
Jabberwalker Jabberwalker: What percentage of our Olympic athletes are gay? I expect that 10-12% are ... about the same proportion as in the general population. I understand the human rights aspect of it but really, how much of our team is actually threatened by this weird Russian law? It's not a 'weird' law. Your country had similar laws on the books not fifty years ago.
|
Posts: 7684
Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:13 pm
DrCaleb DrCaleb: If athletes don't want to abide by Russias' laws, that is their right. Boycott away. But don't assume a culture as old as Russia will give a rat's ass if some atheletes don't show up, just like they didn't in 1980 when the Olympics were in Moscow.
If we're going to boycott them, do it for actual reasons, for what they are actually doing. Not for what we think they are doing. Sure they gave a rats ass. The '84 boycott was Russia's retribution over the '80 boycott by dozens of countries. Only their mini-me boycott couldn't muster the sheer number of participants that the US-led '80 boycott did.
|
Posts: 53473
Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:21 pm
saturn_656 saturn_656: DrCaleb DrCaleb: If athletes don't want to abide by Russias' laws, that is their right. Boycott away. But don't assume a culture as old as Russia will give a rat's ass if some atheletes don't show up, just like they didn't in 1980 when the Olympics were in Moscow.
If we're going to boycott them, do it for actual reasons, for what they are actually doing. Not for what we think they are doing. Sure they gave a rats ass. The '84 boycott was Russia's retribution over the '80 boycott by dozens of countries. Only their mini-me boycott couldn't muster the sheer number of participants that the US-led '80 boycott did. US led? US bullied, more like.  (over the invasion of Afghanistan too. Delicious irony!) But all I'm saying is that a boycott will do nothing for the Russian LGBT community. Russians have been hearing for years that this community is responsible for the degradation of values, and even many sexual abuse cases. Rightly, or wrongly - that is what they believe. A boycott will not change anything about this new law. Athletes are welcome to go there in the spirit of competition. But if they unfurl the Rainbow flag; they will be grabbed by two burly guys, put in the back of a black Lada, driven to the airport and put on the next flight back to wherever they are from. "Dosvedonya, and don't come back!"
|
Posts: 23084
Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:14 pm
$1: The Mexican authorities took no action, but Brundage ordered the athletes suspended by the U.S. organization or he would suspend the entire team. They were suspended and Brundage banned them from the Olympic Village. In 1936 Brundage had defended athletes giving the Nazi salute from the podium. Nice...real nice. /sarcasm
|
Posts: 7684
Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:21 pm
DrCaleb DrCaleb: saturn_656 saturn_656: DrCaleb DrCaleb: If athletes don't want to abide by Russias' laws, that is their right. Boycott away. But don't assume a culture as old as Russia will give a rat's ass if some atheletes don't show up, just like they didn't in 1980 when the Olympics were in Moscow.
If we're going to boycott them, do it for actual reasons, for what they are actually doing. Not for what we think they are doing. Sure they gave a rats ass. The '84 boycott was Russia's retribution over the '80 boycott by dozens of countries. Only their mini-me boycott couldn't muster the sheer number of participants that the US-led '80 boycott did. US led? US bullied, more like.  (over the invasion of Afghanistan too. Delicious irony!) But all I'm saying is that a boycott will do nothing for the Russian LGBT community. Russians have been hearing for years that this community is responsible for the degradation of values, and even many sexual abuse cases. Rightly, or wrongly - that is what they believe. A boycott will not change anything about this new law. Athletes are welcome to go there in the spirit of competition. But if they unfurl the Rainbow flag; they will be grabbed by two burly guys, put in the back of a black Lada, driven to the airport and put on the next flight back to wherever they are from. "Dosvedonya, and don't come back!" Considering a number of NATO countries went to the '80 games, they couldn't have been "bullying" very hard.
|
Posts: 65472
Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:56 pm
peck420 peck420: DrCaleb DrCaleb: Not to defend Russia here, but when did they ban any athlete? Is banning an athlete any different from creating a situation where they are afraid to even show up? Jesse Owens and no end of Jewish athletes had the balls to attend the 1936 Olympics in Berlin where Adolf Hitler himself was watching the events. Show some courage instead of trying to intimidate someone who isn't interested in being intimidated.
|
Posts: 14139
Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:03 pm
Unsound Unsound: Jabberwalker Jabberwalker: What percentage of our Olympic athletes are gay? I expect that 10-12% are ... about the same proportion as in the general population. 10-12% ???? Where on earth are you getting your numbers from? There have been several surveys done. Now obviously not everyone is gong to admit it on a survey necessarily and surveys aren't necessarily scientific but, from what the numbers indicate, about 7% of the male population and about 8% of the female population is gay.
|
Posts: 13404
Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:19 am
BartSimpson BartSimpson: Jabberwalker Jabberwalker: What percentage of our Olympic athletes are gay? I expect that 10-12% are ... about the same proportion as in the general population. I understand the human rights aspect of it but really, how much of our team is actually threatened by this weird Russian law? It's not a 'weird' law. Your country had similar laws on the books not fifty years ago. I would still call it weird. Gay people can't hurt you ... really.
|
Posts: 13404
Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:21 am
peck420 peck420: Jabberwalker Jabberwalker: Agreed but boycotting the games hurts hundreds who have devoted their lives to competing in the Olympics. Go to the games, hold your nose and ... fuck the Russians. Why? If I showed up at the games, ready to compete and win, and I found out that some of my competitors were dissuaded from coming, due to Russian LBGT issues...what kind of victory do I achieve? If I want to prove that I am the best, I want access to all of my competition, I want to beat them all. I don't want to have lingering doubts about whether so and so may have beaten me, etc. To me, that wouldn't be worth the trip, I would rather spend my time training until I could face all of my competition. That will affect very, very few of the competitors. It's wrong, I know but it is also wrong to take away a lifetime of training and preparation for the vast majority of our young athletes who are not directly affected by this weird pogrom against gays.
|
Posts: 5233
Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:09 am
PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9: Unsound Unsound: Jabberwalker Jabberwalker: What percentage of our Olympic athletes are gay? I expect that 10-12% are ... about the same proportion as in the general population. 10-12% ???? Where on earth are you getting your numbers from? There have been several surveys done. Now obviously not everyone is gong to admit it on a survey necessarily and surveys aren't necessarily scientific but, from what the numbers indicate, about 7% of the male population and about 8% of the female population is gay. Stats-can's numbers were based on the number who self-identified as gay or bi on the census. I'd like to know where you guys are getting these other numbers from, because I just can't think of a more accurate method than the anonymous census and self-identification. Not that it matters really, I'm just kinda curious. As for the whole Olympics thing... yeah the Russian laws are terrible. But so are the chinese laws. So were a lot of the freedoms that got restricted in London and everywhere else the olympics goes. The Olympics lost any pretense at moral standing long ago. We can get upset and boycott, or ignore the Olympics. Or we can puch that to the back of our minds and try to enjoy the things about it that are still inspiring. I generally enjoy the Olympics despite all the bs involved, because it's too easy to lose all the joy in life if you look too closely and think too much about the crap that underlies so much of the modern world.
|
|
Page 2 of 2
|
[ 30 posts ] |
Who is online |
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 29 guests |
|
|