[Thanos]

Given what happened in their last election it could just as easily and fairly be said that Americans are now at least as radical and non-rational, if not more so going by the absolute tribal loyalty given to Trump/Moore/etc, as their so-called enemies are.

The IDF military intelligence and Mossad both called Netanyahu's claims about Iran's intentions to be a total crock. And they've repeated their objections multiple times. I'll go more with their assessment than with Israel's crook of a leader who walks hand-in-hand quite merrily with the apocalypse-wing of the American GOP to keep himself in power.

[BeaverFever]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Subjugation of teeming masses takes a lot of blood and treasure. Though there is a power imbalance, eventually the Israelis will reach this conclusion.

Except that the Israelis will choose survival over embracing extinction like the European liberals are doing.

Eventually the Muslims will force the Israelis to oust most, if not all, Muslims from Israeli territory.

"Never Again" is too deeply ingrained in the Israeli psyche for them to ever permit themselves to be threatened as they have in the past.

Someday the IDF will send the UN packing and then the tanks and bulldozers will roll into Gaza and the West Bank to put an end to the Palestinian threat. And the irony of it is that it is the Palestinians who are certain to deliver the casus belli.

Or they could just give up West Bank and Gaza since it’s not theirs to begin with.

And what you on the right continually ignore is that the Christians in the region aee also mostly Palestinians and pro-Palestinian. Historically the Palestinian resistance groups like Yasser Arafat’s PLO were secular. This is as much about occupied people resisting an occupation as it is about religion.

[stratos]

Occupied??? Palestinians were basically kicked out of Jordan and went into what is now Israel during the British mandate. They never had a central government it is more that they are occupying land that was never theirs in the entire history of the middle east.

[ShepherdsDog]

Not quite right. About 25% of the 'Palestinian' population are descended from Jews that converted to Christianity and later Islam. They mixed with Arabs who moved into the area. Even Israel acknowledges this.

[stratos]

And thus have a right yet it's NOT that 25% demanding Israel no longer exist nor is it the Christian Palestinians who are throwing a fit over Jerusalem being recognized as the capital. Yet so many are willing to discount that constant attacks by the Palestinians on Israel and just want to decry Trump recognizing Jerusalem as the capital. Hugs anti-Semite feeling from that segment.

[herbie]

Aha. So they never had the title papers and the Europeans shoved them from one place to another and the Israeli settlers beat them fair and square.

Sounds like a familiar argument don't it?

[Zipperfish]

stratos stratos:

Occupied??? Palestinians were basically kicked out of Jordan and went into what is now Israel during the British mandate. They never had a central government it is more that they are occupying land that was never theirs in the entire history of the middle east.

Oh, I get it. So Israel was completely empty before the Zionists came. Too many American history books and American wikipedia, I'm afraid.

[BeaverFever]

stratos stratos:

Occupied??? Palestinians were basically kicked out of Jordan and went into what is now Israel during the British mandate. They never had a central government it is more that they are occupying land that was never theirs in the entire history of the middle east.

A Palestinian majority existed before and during the British Mandate and preceded the creation of Israel.

$1:

In 1920, the British Government's Interim Report on the Civil Administration of Palestine stated that there were hardly 700,000 people living in Palestine:

There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ. Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or—a small number—are Protestants. The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews. In the following 30 years a few hundreds came to Palestine. Most of them were animated by religious motives; they came to pray and to die in the Holy Land, and to be buried in its soil. After the persecutions in Russia forty years ago, the movement of the Jews to Palestine assumed larger proportions. Jewish agricultural colonies were founded. They developed the culture of oranges and gave importance to the Jaffa orange trade. They cultivated the vine, and manufactured and exported wine. They drained swamps. They planted eucalyptus trees. They practised, with modern methods, all the processes of agriculture. There are at the present time 64 of these settlements, large and small, with a population of some 15,000.[35]

By 1948, the population had risen to 1,900,000, of whom 68% were Arabs, and 32% were Jews (UNSCOP report, including Bedouin).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demograph ... ne_(region)#

[BeaverFever]

stratos stratos:

And thus have a right yet it's NOT that 25% demanding Israel no longer exist nor is it the Christian Palestinians who are throwing a fit over Jerusalem being recognized as the capital. Yet so many are willing to discount that constant attacks by the Palestinians on Israel and just want to decry Trump recognizing Jerusalem as the capital. Hugs anti-Semite feeling from that segment.

Again, not true, as Ted Cruz learned the hard way:

$1:

...Cruz was keynoting a gala for In Defense of Christians (IDC), an advocacy and awareness group that aims to bring the U.S.’s attention to the plight of ancient Christian communities in the Middle East, and to protect the rights of other religious minority groups in the region. This week, IDC is hosting a three-day Summit, a conference bringing together a range of Middle Eastern Christians—Orthodox, Catholic, Coptic, Syriac, Lebanese, Assyrian, to name a few—to foster a new sense of unity in the midst of a politically fraught season.

...,,Cruz initially received applause for his opening remarks that the group was united in defense of Christians, Jews, and “people of good faith who are standing together against those who would persecute and murder those who dare to disagree with their religious teachings.”

Things turned sour within minutes. “ISIS, Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, Hamas, and their state sponsors like Syria and Iran, are all engaged in a vicious genocidal campaign to destroy religious minorities in the Middle East,” Cruz said. “Sometimes we are told not to lump these groups together, but we have to understand their so-called nuances and differences. . . . In 1948 Jews throughout the Middle East faced murder and extermination and fled to the nation of Israel. And today Christians have no better ally than the Jewish state.”

His audience at the Omni Shoreham Hotel began to boo.

At first, Cruz continued undeterred. “Let me say this: those who hate Israel hate America. And those who hate Jews hate Christians.”

The booing got louder.

....At its core, Cruz’s problem was one of context. First, he pinned his remarks to the conflict between Israel and Hamas when one of the group’s primary agenda points was actually the plight of Iraqi Christians. Second, Christians are far from a monolithic group, especially when it comes to views on policy on Israel and the Middle East. The American evangelicals Cruz typically addresses tend to be worlds apart historically, culturally, theologically, and politically from the Christian leaders in attendance.

Most American evangelicals are likely not even familiar with the Christian leaders gathered at this event, even though the headliners are the Rick Warrens, Cardinal Dolans, and even Pope Francises of their own Eastern Christendom communities...

http://time.com/3328063/ted-cruz-booed- ... ddle-east/

$1:

Evangelicals side with Israel. That’s hurting Palestinian Christians.

When Americans sing carols about the ‘Little Town of Bethlehem’ this Christmas, they should keep in mind who lives there.


This week, Christmas pageants across the country will reenact the scenes of the nativity; carolers will sing the beloved hymn, "O Little Town of Bethlehem"; and millions will turn their hearts toward that ancient city, where many believe that Jesus was born. But it's likely most Americans haven't pondered what that birthplace is like today — or who lives there.

Bethlehem is the most heavily Christian city in Palestine. Its Arab Christian mayor, Vera Baboun, describes her hometown the "capital of Christmas" and says that between Bethlehem proper and the surrounding Bethlehem governate, there are upward of 38,000 Christian residents. Christmas celebrations there form an integral part of city life. "Bethlehem is the city that gave the message of peace to the whole world," Baboun told me in a November interview at a conference hosted by the Middle East Institute in Washington, D.C. "But today, Bethlehem does not live the peace that it gave to the whole world."

The existence of Palestinian Christians, and the difficulties they face under Israeli occupation in their homeland, is a blind spot for American Christians. Evangelicals in particular are often strong supporters of Israel and suspicious of Muslims but don't seem to realize that those aren't the only groups at play in the region.

...Bethlehem, and its Christians, have suffered deeply as a result. It's difficult for local authorities there to ensure access to clean water and maintain basic infrastructure — a situation worsened by the Palestinian Authority's own endemic graft. Residents have relatively few economic or educational opportunities, and even peaceful dissidents may be subject to arrest or punitive home demolition. The wall also severed the connection to their religious twin city, Jerusalem. Christians had once traveled freely between Bethlehem's Church of the Nativity and Jerusalem's Church of the Holy Sepulcher. Now they must apply for permits and wait for hours in crowded lines at checkpoints.

...
But even when conservative Christians are aware that Palestinian Christians face difficulty, they tend to believe it is exclusively the result of Islamic extremism. As Baboun told me, when she travels abroad, the question she fields most frequently is about the relationship between Muslims and Christians in Bethlehem. But, she says, "I always tell them this is the wrong question. Because we are Palestinians. As Christians and Muslims, we are living under the same pressure to keep on our daily bread, the education of our children, our daily life."

Rather, she enjoins, "Ask the correct question: Why up to this point are we not witnessing a peaceful solution between Palestinians and Israelis?"

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.washing ... hristians/

[N_Fiddledog]

Is there some reason you clipped this bit from your quote, Beave?

$1:

Baaklini attempted to smooth over the situation. “As Cardinal Rai so eloquently put it to the attendees of the In Defense of Christians’ inaugural Summit gala dinner: ‘At every wedding, there are a few problems,’” he said in a statement following the incident. “In this case, a few politically motivated opportunists chose to divide a room that for more than 48 hours sought unity in opposing the shared threat of genocide, faced not only by our Christian brothers and sisters, but our Jewish brothers and sisters and people of all other faiths and all people of good will.”

It's from the head of the organization that put on the gala - the IDC, or In Defence of Christians.

Also Beave, you forgot to tell us about the other guy who was at the event and seemed to share your delight in the scattering of anti-semitic boobirds.

This guy:

James Zogby, president of the Arab American Institute and another speaker at IDC’s conference

[N_Fiddledog]

And another thing you always forget to tell us when you're telling us about Christians in the disputed territories is stuff like this:

$1:

The Jesuit magazine America recently reported that Arab Christians are fleeing in droves from Bethlehem, the hallowed city of Jesus Christ’s birth.

https://providencemag.com/2016/03/why-a ... s-fleeing/

And, of course, you can find something blaming those evil Jews, but you should know there's a counter-argument. Click the link and discover it if you like.

But I'm not sure what your point is. You seem to be thinking Arab Christians are necessarily pro-Muslim or something. If that were true then why are so many leaving lately while the Muslim population is growing in the area they're leaving?

[N_Fiddledog]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Or they could just give up West Bank and Gaza since it’s not theirs to begin with.

The West Bank is in dispute.

Did I hear you say you didn't think Israel did give up Gaza? I admit I thought they did. Show me what I missed.

This bit though, I do think I know something about.

$1:

And what you on the right continually ignore is that the Christians in the region aee also mostly Palestinians and pro-Palestinian. Historically the Palestinian resistance groups like Yasser Arafat’s PLO were secular. This is as much about occupied people resisting an occupation as it is about religion.

When you say "Christians in the region are also mostly Palestinians" I'm not sure what you mean by 'Palestinians.' I do remember reading a stat from I think it was 2007 stating they were 80% Arab.

If it's just the region you're talking about though, wouldn't Jews be Palestinian?

If we're creating terms for the conquering Muslims, the colonizing Ottomans and the masses of Muslim immigrants in the 20th century though, I will create my own and call them Muslims In Dispute Of Territory or MIDOTS.

Speaking of which...funny you should bring up Yasser Arafat. I just read something about Yasser. Did you ever hear this one? It's from Daniel Pipes site, but it's not from him. It's from one of his readers so I don't know how accurate it is.

$1:

Even Yasser Arafat, the most famous "Palestinian" and leader of the P.L.O terrorist organization, was not native to Judea. He called himself a "Palestinian refugee" but spoke Arabic with an Egyptian accent. He was born in 1929 Cairo, Egypt. He served in the Egyptian army, studied in the University of Cairo, and lived in Cairo until 1956! His full name was Mohammed Abdel Rahman Abdel Raouf Arafat al-Qudwa al-Husseini. "Al-Qudwa" tribe origin?

Yasser Arafat also proudly stated in his authorized biography that, "If there is any such thing as a Palestinian people, it is I, Yasser Arafat, who created them.

http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/182419

And personally, I think Stratos is right even if his reasoning is questionable. There is no occupation of the West Bank. There is a dispute of territory.

[stratos]

Well time to break out the logic of the left again. IF YOU DO NOT SUPPORT JERUSALEM AS THE CAPITAL OF ISRAEL YOU ARE AN ANTI-SEMITE and thus a NAZI. Every person who supported, cheered and or in anyway agree(d) with ANTIFA must now use that same logic and admit they are NAZI's. If you don't you are a huge hypocrite and full of so much BS that you really should stop posting. It's plain and simple you can not claim that people on the right are all NAZI's then be anti-Semitic when it comes to Israel.

[martin14]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

When you say "Christians in the region are also mostly Palestinians" I'm not sure what you mean by 'Palestinians.' I do remember reading a stat from I think it was 2007 stating they were 80% Arab.

It's the change in the narrative.
The alt left has discovered after 70 years of screaming anti Jew stuff,
and 10 years being absolutely silent over the Yazidis in Iraq,
now suddenly they are all concerned about the tiny minority of Christians
as a new tactic.

Let's face facts BF never gave one hooting fuck about Christians anywhere
before, he is just parroting some bullshit new alt left nonsense.

[BartSimpson]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Or they could just give up West Bank and Gaza since it’s not theirs to begin with.

You're right. The Arabs need to vacate the West Bank and Gaza because it was never theirs to begin with. That ratfuck thief Saladin stole the land and it's high time the land was restored to the Jews!

Glad we can agree on something!