[PostFactum]

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

Western countries consider it a crime for a government official to accept a bribe. Criminal. That means incarceration in jail, and disqualified from ever holding a government job again. That $500 is nothing compared to loss of your entire job. And a security guard accepting a bribe from a foreign government is treason.

And now, try to explain this to Crimea and East Ukraine.

[andyt]

Ukraine is riven with corruption, including the new govt. Tymoshenko certainly also accepted bribes from Gasprom. Ukraine has its oligarchs, same as Russia. It's not the pure people who favor the West and the evil corrupt people who favor Russia.

[ShepherdsDog]

$1:

Western countries consider it a crime for a government official be seen openly accepting a bribe

fixed for reality, because we all know the political class are a bunch of self serving whores, where image rather than substance is more important

[PostFactum]

andyt andyt:

Ukraine is riven with corruption, including the new govt. Tymoshenko certainly also accepted bribes from Gasprom. Ukraine has its oligarchs, same as Russia. It's not the pure people who favor the West and the evil corrupt people who favor Russia.

Really? You were keeping a candle while she was accepting?

[Winnipegger]

PostFactum PostFactum:

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

Western countries consider it a crime for a government official to accept a bribe. Criminal. That means incarceration in jail, and disqualified from ever holding a government job again. That $500 is nothing compared to loss of your entire job. And a security guard accepting a bribe from a foreign government is treason.

And now, try to explain this to Crimea and East Ukraine.

Has Ukraine arrested security guards who accepted a bribe? No law exists unless you're willing to enforce it.

[andyt]

PostFactum PostFactum:

andyt andyt:

Ukraine is riven with corruption, including the new govt. Tymoshenko certainly also accepted bribes from Gasprom. Ukraine has its oligarchs, same as Russia. It's not the pure people who favor the West and the evil corrupt people who favor Russia.

Really? You were keeping a candle while she was accepting?

I don't know what that means

[PostFactum]

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

PostFactum PostFactum:

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

Western countries consider it a crime for a government official to accept a bribe. Criminal. That means incarceration in jail, and disqualified from ever holding a government job again. That $500 is nothing compared to loss of your entire job. And a security guard accepting a bribe from a foreign government is treason.

And now, try to explain this to Crimea and East Ukraine.

Has Ukraine arrested security guards who accepted a bribe? No law exists unless you're willing to enforce it.

Yes and few on home arrest.

[Goober911]

andyt andyt:

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

PF, maybe that's what you guys deserve. Freedom and a home aren't a right, they were earned by our forefathers; and if tested, we must pay the same price to earn the right to keep them.

If you feel your government isn't doing what's right, then it's up to you, the common people, to find the solution to your probllem.

We are told that 70% of the people in East Ukraine don't want to join Russia. If that's true, they're going to have to show it somehow, because at the moment the 30% who favor Russia are taking all the initiative. You can't cry later about the outcome if you didn't take any action to try to prevent it.

I wonder if the 70/30 split is a line of bullshit we're being fed to try to demonize Russia. Maybe the majority of East Ukrainians favor joining Russia, and that's why you see only action by the Russian insurgents. Doesn't make as good a case for outrage over Russia's actions tho, if this is really what the people want.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wor ... -protests/

[martin14]

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

PostFactum PostFactum:

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

Western countries consider it a crime for a government official to accept a bribe. Criminal. That means incarceration in jail, and disqualified from ever holding a government job again. That $500 is nothing compared to loss of your entire job. And a security guard accepting a bribe from a foreign government is treason.

And now, try to explain this to Crimea and East Ukraine.

Has Ukraine arrested security guards who accepted a bribe? No law exists unless you're willing to enforce it.

Have you ever been outside Canada ?

[andyt]

As I say, if a majority of people in East Ukraine favor staying in Ukraine, they'd better show it now, before it's too late.

[Winnipegger]

Interesting. Your map shows Dnipropetrovs'k as "predominantly Russian-speaking" but not "Significant ethnic Russian population". Yuzhmash is in that oblast.

Your map shows 4 oblasts are "Significant ethnic Russian population": Kharkivs'ka, Lahans'ka, Donets'k, and Zaporizhzhya. Do you know what proportion is ethnic Russian? And what proportion isn't ethinic Russian, but speaks Russian?

[PostFactum]

Goober911 Goober911:

andyt andyt:

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

PF, maybe that's what you guys deserve. Freedom and a home aren't a right, they were earned by our forefathers; and if tested, we must pay the same price to earn the right to keep them.

If you feel your government isn't doing what's right, then it's up to you, the common people, to find the solution to your probllem.

We are told that 70% of the people in East Ukraine don't want to join Russia. If that's true, they're going to have to show it somehow, because at the moment the 30% who favor Russia are taking all the initiative. You can't cry later about the outcome if you didn't take any action to try to prevent it.

I wonder if the 70/30 split is a line of bullshit we're being fed to try to demonize Russia. Maybe the majority of East Ukrainians favor joining Russia, and that's why you see only action by the Russian insurgents. Doesn't make as good a case for outrage over Russia's actions tho, if this is really what the people want.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wor ... -protests/

It's just language map, not etno.

[Goober911]

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

PostFactum PostFactum:

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

Western countries consider it a crime for a government official to accept a bribe. Criminal. That means incarceration in jail, and disqualified from ever holding a government job again. That $500 is nothing compared to loss of your entire job. And a security guard accepting a bribe from a foreign government is treason.

And now, try to explain this to Crimea and East Ukraine.

Has Ukraine arrested security guards who accepted a bribe? No law exists unless you're willing to enforce it.

Each Govt has been corrupt. Rampant corruption in Ukraine.
NG contracts for one
http://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-Gener ... opoly.html


https://ukraineanalysis.wordpress.com/c ... orruption/

People came to the central Independence Square in Kyiv, known as Maidan, in November 2013 not only to protest their government’s last minute rejection of the free trade and association agreement with the European Union that had been five years in the making, not only from outrage at riot police violence against dancing and singing peaceful demonstrators, mainly youth, on the night of November 30. They came to the streets and many have stayed there for 90 days to denounce the looting of their country that has been taking place in front of their eyes for years.

Perhaps most importantly, they came to reclaim their own dignity, which they were stripped off by becoming part of an unprecedented historical experiment of dismantling state ownership and creating private fortunes behind closed doors overnight, by accepting and living by the rules they did not establish and therefore becoming part of the system they despised. They came because one morning they watched TV, read an Internet post, heard the first- hand account of a friend and felt – enough is enough.

[PostFactum]

[Winnipegger]

martin14 martin14:

Have you ever been outside Canada ?

I worked in a suburb of Richmond, Virginia, for 6 months in 1997. The manager told me built a large garage behind his house. Government inspector wouldn't let him pour concrete for the pad because one corner was over a natural gas line. He offered to make the concrete thicker in that corner, to ensure no pressure on the underground pipe. Then gave the government inspector a bribe. The inspector accepted after receiving the bribe.

I worked in Miami, Florida, for 10 months in 1999/2000. My contract was for the county government, so don't expect anyone there to admit to bribery. But the newspaper was full of accusations. Every ethnic group accused every other. Hispanics hated blacks, blacks hated hispanics, whites hated everyone. Even within the Hispanic community: those from Argentina hated Cubans, Mexicans were separate. Etc. Too bad, I liked the party atmosphere at CocoWalk on Friday night and weekends.

It felt like the US was the world's largest third world country. Pay was good, but I was glad to return home.