[PJB]

Donny...What,exactly, is rightfully yours?

[Bodah]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

The Mohawks sold their land grants off, just like the United Empire Loyalists did.

That's the historical facts in issue and that's the fact that you cannot counter, card carrying Indians or not.

It's time this dispute was looked at in simple terms without the rhetoric of other treaty claims that do have validity.

The Mohawk claim is not one of them and your blind support of them, mixed with your blind contempt of the 'white-man' and Canadian laws, shows me (and I'm sure others feel the same) that your arguments are not well thought out.

You respond with purely emotional responses on this issue.

This is not a credible response and you continue to ignore the facts and can't see how unfair it is to the people caught in the middle of a groundless claim.

This is the attitude that is losing you support outside the Aboriginal community in Canada and this is the attitude that will see the Mohawks defeated.

[llama66]

PJB PJB:

Donny...What,exactly, is rightfully yours?

everything is his, are you kidding? his people are immigrants too and yet they have the audacity to tell us that they can stake a claim to whatever. The more he bitches about the white man the more I wish we could abolish the Indian Act and force these people to integrate into Canadian society, for too long have they sucked at the teet of Ottawa and bitched when something hasn't gone their way, or gone militant and seized something. They fail to realize that only in Canada can they do this, any other country and they'd be dealing with the business end of a tank. I really wish we had a government with a backbone.

[llama66]

Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:

llama66 llama66:

free education, housing, tax exemption, etc... I have to pay taxes, pay for my education, and I will have to pay for my house (if I can ever afford it) you wouldn't know how that feels...

Wow, your ignorance is outstanding. Is there a CKA award for Ignoramuus?

I'm sure you could ask the mods create one and I too will nominate you for it.

[Donny_Brasco]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

This is not a credible response and you continue to ignore the facts and can't see how unfair it is to the people caught in the middle of a groundless claim.

Simple Fact: The Six Nations and their land are not treated any differently than any other First Nation.

This one fact blows your theory out into space. Even though it makes sense that is not the reality today. Like I said, if you feel so strongly about your theory go revoke their Status cards.

Or, tell me your "facts" again so I can give you the same response.

[Bodah]

Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

This is not a credible response and you continue to ignore the facts and can't see how unfair it is to the people caught in the middle of a groundless claim.

Simple Fact: The Six Nations and their land are not treated any differently than any other First Nation.

Meaning what fine details are overlooked ?

[Donny_Brasco]

PJB PJB:

Donny...What,exactly, is rightfully yours?

I have a constitutionally protected right to have the agreements that your grandfathers made to mine honoured.

You have the right to live in this country because I honour my end of the bargain, to share this land with you.

My rights and obligations and just as legally binding as yours are.

Unfortunately the crown, and ultimately you, are responsible for the poor decision making and ethnocentric nature of your people from the moment you signed treaty up until now.

We may not be able to recapture the 200 years or more we lost because we were confined to our reserves living under corrupt Indian agents who pilfered our lands and denied us the opportunity to join your way of living unless we renounced our Indian status.

But we will, at every opportunity hold you accountable for those mistakes - and more importantly in your courts and on your terms we are doing just that.

I have no intention of letting bygones be bygones as long as our standards of living and our employment rates and our levels of health lag behind that of non-Aboriginals.

And I have said may ties that our people have alot of work to do ourselves. But the time that you get to dictate our progress has passed. The days that we accept your words and promises and fail to hold you accountable for every blade of grass that you own because of our generosity has ended.

Our forefathers envisioned us sharing this land and traveling down the river as two equal, but separate people in seperate canoes. Turns out that as we helped you and made promises to you - promises that you were required to make through your own laws, your people stole, and defrauded and hindered our participation in the building of the civilization that you claim that we do not care to participate in today.

My grandfather fought beside your grandfathers for Canada in WW2. In return he was sent back to the reserve as a pauper, poor, same as he was when he went to fight for the freedom of all of us. In the meantime your grandfathers enjoyed land grants, credit, pensions...

And you chastise me and the rest of us people who are descendents our noble grandfathers like you have some sort of honour or integrity left after 150+ years of assimilation, greed and apartheid?

Today our victories are not sentimental, emotional or gifts from the Crown or you out of kindness. They are legal proceedings with actual legal consequences resulting from the innate dishonesty that your culture seems to be inflicted with.

And I don’t apologise for the state of my people today. We are responsible for our own rebuilding. But that includes holding each and every Canadian liable for every shred or harm that has ever been inflicted on us and our forefathers.

What is rightfully mine? It is rightfully mine to hold you and every Canadian accountable for the land you live on and to the original keepers of this land.

[RUEZ]

Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:

But we will, at every opportunity hold you accountable for those mistakes - and more importantly in your courts and on your terms we are doing just that.

If that were true this thread wouldn't be here.

[Donny_Brasco]

llama66 llama66:

PJB PJB:

Donny...What,exactly, is rightfully yours?

everything is his, are you kidding? his people are immigrants too and yet they have the audacity to tell us that they can stake a claim to whatever. The more he bitches about the white man the more I wish we could abolish the Indian Act and force these people to integrate into Canadian society, for too long have they sucked at the teet of Ottawa and bitched when something hasn't gone their way, or gone militant and seized something. They fail to realize that only in Canada can they do this, any other country and they'd be dealing with the business end of a tank. I really wish we had a government with a backbone.

The Royal Proclamation 1773 states that the Crown must make agreements with us to take our land.

Now, you may think that this is old news and therefore should not apply anymore.

But buy let me tell you, if you go to law school today - on the first or second day, you will deal with cases and case law that even proceeds this in many, many different matters of law.

So if you think you can legally extinguish my title to this land or roll up your tanks and threaten me legally...think again.

But I understand your frustration. I mean for the last 300 years you’ve had your way and done what you want with no repercussions. Well I’ve only been around for about 10% of those 300 years and now the mortgage, rent, backpay, alimony plus damages are due in full.

And if you have not noticed it yet, despite my intense fondness for 99% of white people, I love seeing the 1% like you pissing your pants about the Natives and the freebees and the taxfree cigarettes...

I’m heading out to the Indian store right now, and even though I don’t smoke I’m going to buy a pack for $6. And I’ll be thinking of you.

[Donny_Brasco]

RUEZ RUEZ:

Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:

But we will, at every opportunity hold you accountable for those mistakes - and more importantly in your courts and on your terms we are doing just that.

If that were true this thread wouldn't be here.

Really? I'd say I've got $126 Million reasons to debate that.

[Donny_Brasco]

RUEZ RUEZ:

Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:

But we will, at every opportunity hold you accountable for those mistakes - and more importantly in your courts and on your terms we are doing just that.

If that were true this thread wouldn't be here.

O ya, and the government bought that land and quietly in a year or four it will be handed to the Mohawk just lke Oka. All charges will be dropped just like Oka.

Why? Because the governent lawyers know a little teensy but more that eyebrock.

[OnTheIce]

Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:

.

Unfortunately the crown, and ultimately you, are responsible for the poor decision making and ethnocentric nature of your people from the moment you signed treaty up until now.

We may not be able to recapture the 200 years or more we lost because we were confined to our reserves living under corrupt Indian agents who pilfered our lands and denied us the opportunity to join your way of living unless we renounced our Indian status.

But we will, at every opportunity hold you accountable for those mistakes - and more importantly in your courts and on your terms we are doing just that.

Corruption, crime, alcoholism is still rampant in your community. Who's responsible for that?

Perhaps had your culture spent less time hoarding all the money in a corrupt manor and done something productive with your lives and communities, Canadians and the Government as a whole, wouldn't look at you as a group of people looking for the next handout. And I speak from experience. 20+ years on a reserve.

You say it's time to "pay up"...I'd strongly suggest you and your people not try to collect. Numbers are not in your favour.

[Canadian_Mind]

where does this 125 million figure keep coming from?

[RUEZ]

Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:

RUEZ RUEZ:

Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:

But we will, at every opportunity hold you accountable for those mistakes - and more importantly in your courts and on your terms we are doing just that.

If that were true this thread wouldn't be here.

Really? I'd say I've got $126 Million reasons to debate that.

I think you missed the point. If your people were going about this the right way and through the courts only there wouldn't be stories about the assaults and illegal roadblocks. Or stories about residents setting up malitias.

[Bodah]

I dont blame the people of Caledonia for trying to set up an militia. I would do the same if came home one day and found a group of strangers sitting on what I thought was my deck, claiming it was theirs first and now there going to turn it into shit.

I dont care what the beef is get the fuck off my deck.