[ziggy]

PluggyRug PluggyRug:

So it seems the taxpayers were paying domwn the debt and the Liberals took credit.

Cements the reason why I will never vote for those shysters.

That's about it,they turned it into their own personal slush fund on the backs of the workers who thought it was an insurance fund for when times got tough.

Paid down the debt useing it and then bragged they were economically responsible.

[DerbyX]

Except you are both wrong and both ignoring Harpers doing the same thing.

EI premiums are tax deductible. In other words everybody who pays EI can reduce the amount of federal tax they owe by that amount.

That is not fair. That means the federal govt is losing revenue to a fund only accesible to a select group of people.

Thats no different then allowing auto-insurance premiums to be tax deductible.

The Chretien Liberals were not responsible for the 550+ billion debt nor the 30 billion deficit nor the interest it accrued each year though they were held accountable for the entire thing budget wise.

Even the most partisan complaint tops the Liberal usage of the EI fund at over 50 billion which is only half the debt they repayed.

The supreme court ruled it was legally used ingeneral funds. Harper used the EI surplus in general funds.

You can't gloat about the Libs being found guilty of breaking the law in 02, 03, and 05 without acknowledging the fact they were perfectly legal to use the EI surplus to pay down the debt.

I'd be happy to have the govt refund the money to the EI fund just as soon as every taxpayer who deducted those expenses from their income tax owing paid the govt its due.

The end result will be an EI fund +54 billion or so, a shitload of people out a shitload of money and in the end no real change.

How about it guys? You repay the govt the money you owe them when you claimed the EI exemption and they put that money into the EI fund.

[DerbyX]

Ya know Zig,

You and me on this subject get along like an old man and a midget.

"wheres the rest of ya?"

Oh well.

[PluggyRug]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Except you are both wrong and both ignoring Harpers doing the same thing.

EI premiums are tax deductible. In other words everybody who pays EI can reduce the amount of federal tax they owe by that amount.

That is not fair. That means the federal govt is losing revenue to a fund only accesible to a select group of people.

Thats no different then allowing auto-insurance premiums to be tax deductible.

The Chretien Liberals were not responsible for the 550+ billion debt nor the 30 billion deficit nor the interest it accrued each year though they were held accountable for the entire thing budget wise.

Even the most partisan complaint tops the Liberal usage of the EI fund at over 50 billion which is only half the debt they repayed.

The supreme court ruled it was legally used ingeneral funds. Harper used the EI surplus in general funds.

You can't gloat about the Libs being found guilty of breaking the law in 02, 03, and 05 without acknowledging the fact they were perfectly legal to use the EI surplus to pay down the debt.

I'd be happy to have the govt refund the money to the EI fund just as soon as every taxpayer who deducted those expenses from their income tax owing paid the govt its due.

The end result will be an EI fund +54 billion or so, a shitload of people out a shitload of money and in the end no real change.

How about it guys? You repay the govt the money you owe them when you claimed the EI exemption and they put that money into the EI fund.

Except that that the taxpayers were unknowingly paying down the debt and the Libs took credit.

[ShepherdsDog]

Hey!! don't confuse their propoganda with facts.

[DerbyX]

PluggyRug PluggyRug:

Except that that the taxpayers were unknowingly paying down the debt and the Libs took credit.

No. The taxpayers expected it. Thats why the Libs were elected. To clean the grit dirt away.

The taxpayers were on the hock for 550 billion in debt before Chretien took office.

550 billion in debt, 30 billion in deficit and all the con hacks can reference is not buying the helos for 10 billion.

Any other party would have bankrupted Canada.

[herbie]

Well there's one sure way to get your money back.
Go up to your boss Monday and let him know what an ignorant prick he is. You'll start getting it all back quickly.
Or just wait a few months the way things are going..... and you'll get it back with a shorter waiting period!

[ziggy]

herbie herbie:

Well there's one sure way to get your money back.
Go up to your boss Monday and let him know what an ignorant prick he is. You'll start getting it all back quickly.
Or just wait a few months the way things are going..... and you'll get it back with a shorter waiting period!

I have to pay into it but cant collect it.Maybe I should join a union.









Not!

[ShepherdsDog]

herbie herbie:

Well there's one sure way to get your money back.
Go up to your boss Monday and let him know what an ignorant prick he is. You'll start getting it all back quickly.
Or just wait a few months the way things are going..... and you'll get it back with a shorter waiting period!

Can you collect if you get fired?

The only experience I have with EI is when my wife took maternity leave. She got EI and mat pay from the division. $ 800(EI) one week and then $ 900(Mat pay) the next.

[ziggy]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

herbie herbie:

Well there's one sure way to get your money back.
Go up to your boss Monday and let him know what an ignorant prick he is. You'll start getting it all back quickly.
Or just wait a few months the way things are going..... and you'll get it back with a shorter waiting period!

Can you collect if you get fired?

The only experience I have with EI is when my wife took maternity leave. She got EI and mat pay from the division. $ 800(EI) one week and then $ 900(Mat pay) the next.

No you cant collect unless your laid off,and in the case with all the easterners I worked with on the first job up north all it took was a phone call from a prick of a supervisor saying he fired them and they were all turned down.This assshole super was from BC and was bringing all his unemployed logging bud's in along with his family and that's how he fucked most of my bud's when that job ended.I think his wife was running cat,his kid and kids friend hid most days,his brother was a lazy slacker who made himself foreman one day,just a real shitshow and the guys nepotism wound up costing his construction company's owners the loss of a possible 20 years of multi million dollar contracts.All for some quick big bucks and the chance to show his bud's he was a "player" by getting them all jobs.

But the way he manipulated the EI dept. blew me away,one phone call and these guys that thought they would have their "stamps" to tide them over back in Cape Breton found they were left with nothing.

EI is a good thing,just that it should be solely for getting peeps back to work.They do fund global training in Alberta which will get a guy all his oilfield tickets which are allmost mandatory anywhere in this province.But if you land a job the next year you will be expected to pay back a percentage on your next tax return.

As an insurance fund it should only be used for that,not paying down the debt while workers are getting turned down and I saw it big time here when the coal industry went for a shit like it does every 7 or so years(boom bust).

I'll have to ask my acct. if I can write off my EI premiums I pay,should be able to if I cant collect it being self employed unless I get pregnant and apply for Mat leave.

[ShepherdsDog]

I think if you're the dad, and stay at home to care for a newborn you can get mat from EI too, not sure if that's a fact though. They can do it in Sweden, but a lot of weird shit happens there.

[ziggy]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

I think if you're the dad, and stay at home to care for a newborn you can get mat from EI too, not sure if that's a fact though. They can do it in Sweden, but a lot of weird shit happens there.

You can and the employer used to foot half the bill,my bro in law was the first guy in BC to do it and his employer was not happy.
EI pays for mat leave but that's a good thing,a dad should be able to spend some time with his new kid.

I could be wrong but I think the employer is also responsible for half the bill if someone go's on stress leave.

[dino_bobba_renno]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Except you are both wrong and both ignoring Harpers doing the same thing.

EI premiums are tax deductible. In other words everybody who pays EI can reduce the amount of federal tax they owe by that amount.

So what does that have to do with anything? I give the government a dollar and they give me a tax credit worth between 20 and 30 cents. That still leaves me out out of pocket for 70 cents which will go into a employment insurance slush fund from which I will never be entitled to collect a dime from.

[DerbyX]

dino_bobba_renno dino_bobba_renno:

DerbyX DerbyX:

Except you are both wrong and both ignoring Harpers doing the same thing.

EI premiums are tax deductible. In other words everybody who pays EI can reduce the amount of federal tax they owe by that amount.

So what does that have to do with anything? I give the government a dollar and they give me a tax credit worth between 20 and 30 cents. That still leaves me out out of pocket for 70 cents which will go into a employment insurance slush fund from which I will never be entitled to collect a dime from.

What it means is that because its tax deductible it comes off any income tax owed.

Lets say you owe X dollars in tax but deduct 700 from it for EI contributions. Another person owes the same amount but doesn't pay into the EI fund doesn't get that deduction.

You and he both owe the same amount in tax yet you pay 700 dollars less and you get access to Employment Insurance.

Why should you owe less tax because you pay EI. Paying EI doesn't mean you get less services from the govt so why should you pay less? My uncle has been a "piece-work" drywaller his entire life. He never paid EI and was never eligible to collect it either. Why should he have to pay more tax then a drywaller making the same amount but working for a company proper and paying EI?

Thats like being allowed to deduct auto insurance premiums. People with cars pay less income tax then people who don't own one?

In addition, why is it that when the EI fund was underfunded did the govt have to make up the shortfall?

The entire amound paid into the EI fund is tax deductible both for employees and employers, who BTW paid far more into it so the actual amount used that constitued "employee" contributions is significantly less then the 54 billion claimed by labour unions. The govt is forever giving tax breaks to employers, bailing them out like the auto industry or simply allowing them to defer taxes owed until the next millenium so I have little sympathy with unions crying foul over the EI fund while they scream at the govt for billions to bail them out.

So because EI contributions come directly out of the taxes owed that go into general revenue they decrease the amount of money the govt has, money that has already been spent on healthcare, education, infrastructure, etc.

The only thing about this I don't like is that the Libs changed the rules making it harder for people who had been paying into EI to collect it when needed. However like everything in life there are multiple sides. Prior to that change Canada was being called a welfare state and people were abusing EI. They'd work the minimum hours to qualify then quit their job and go back on unemployment. I recall one summer by buddy and I were applying for a packing job, the same job his mother and her friend were applying for. They were discussing the job one day and the friend was commenting on how her EI was up and she needed to be employed for whatever days/hours to qualify again.

Of course back then we were teens and I didn't know jack about any of that stuff.

[herbie]

$1:

Can you collect if you get fired?

Yes, but there's a longer waiting period.
You guys don't know the ropes! Most of this surplus was built with a few simple steps.
First, all they do is hassle a large block of applicants. You were fired. Sorry.
More than half the people stop there. They don't appeal, they don't call, write or go into the EI office, they just whine to their friends. HUGE savings.
Apply for retraining: you automatically miss the first cheque because you're disqualified 'as you're not available for work' even though the shitheads set you up. ANOTHER big percentage just gives up.
Most of the applicants don't want to make the slightest effort. I know several so fucking lazy they didn't even apply because the 'forms were too hard'. These people disqualify themselves, don't deserve EI.
This has filtered down to every agency, or at least it has here in BC. I know a guy with this weird disease eating away his tendons. They moved the Welfare office to another town, and schedule him an appointment at 9:30 a.m. It's a small town area, everyone knows the bus doesn't leave until 9:15 and doesn't get there until 9:55. So when the guy shows up they rail at him that he doesn't even have the ambition 'to show up for his appointment on time and tell him to come back next month.
Next month he shows up and they take his bus receipts and refund him $2.75 each way, knowing full well he paid $20 each way as there's only Greyhound service.
Then the guy has the gall to ask if they'd supply fenders for his electric wheelchair (they cost $200) because he gets soaked and covered with mud. They tell a guy with no leg function and only 1 working arm to 'bring a change of clothes in a plastic bag and change when you get there'....
Of course they LOSE every appeal. But well over half of claimants won't even make an appeal!