[QBC]

Brenda Brenda:

QBC QBC:

Brenda Brenda:

QBC QBC:

Hey, what I don't get is, Brenda handcuffed me and I didn't ask for an apology...

Want some more eh?

Ummmmm....only if you use the fuzzy one's this time....

Awwww, you didn't like the black leather ones with spikes?

Ok, then, but not the pink ones, k?

Pink ones?, you have pink ones?....I was thinking the leopard fur...

[Bacardi4206]

Brenda Brenda:

Bacardi4206 Bacardi4206:

Brenda Brenda:

dino_bobba_renno dino_bobba_renno:

Brenda Brenda:

WAS he acting aggressively? Police officers (as well as bouncers, like Derby mentioned) are trained for situations like this, they are taught to negotiate and calm down. You don't approach someone with a deadly weapon so he can kill you. That means, that the kid already got rid of the meatcleaver, right?

No cuffing necessary anymore. A stiff talking to should have done the trick.

How do you know he wasn't? Isn't that the problem here? The parents and the family can go on TV and bash the police all they want but because of the laws regarding minors the police have no chance to explain or defend their actions. Besides, I see nothing wrong with them cuffing the kid, how does it hurt him in any way shape or form? I was cuffed when I was 12 over a nothing deal, its not like I've been scarred for life.

What did you expect them to do, give him lolly pop and a stern talking to and then just leave?

I told you what I expected them to do, wtf do you want?

The PARENTS should have been there in the first place (and I am repeating myself here), THEY are the ones that are responsible. THEY shouldn't bash on the police, they shouldn't have let it happen.

The police shouldn't have cuffed the kid. Even if he was aggressive, he was 10, they are adults. Period.

That doesn't quite answer his question, how would you restrain the kid? Obviously you can't just leave him there, and you need to take him to the police car. How do you get him to go along? Put jelly beans on the ground in a line all the way into the cop car? The only logical answer is to cuff the kid (Which doesnt hurt) and bring him to the car. Would you rather they knocked him out?, broke his arms? etc.

Why would you want him restrained? I think he was shaken up enough to be like a little lamb... Why did they need to take him to a police car?

The only logical answer for me, is to give the kid a talking to, ask him where his parents are, call them, and give them a talking to too.

Well they took him to the car because his parents wern't there, what else would they do? Leave the kid there? It was the right thing to do. Giving kids a talking to is not going to make them not do it again, that's like saying telling kids not to do drugs will prevent them for doing drugs. We all know how effective that is.

[DerbyX]

mikewood86 mikewood86:

DerbyX DerbyX:

lily lily:

DerbyX DerbyX:

Brenda Brenda:

$1:

It wasn't so long ago, that it would be the parents apologizing to the police over such poorly behaved children.

Nail on the head.

It wasn't so long ago that all the police would do with rowdy children is let their parents sort it out also.

And then people complained that nothing was done and the kids grew into young offenders.

Every generation seems to look back on how their dad or grandparents did things with fond memories as if they didn't have the same problems.

"kids these days".

I think that despite all the media attention to the contrary kids these days are no worse then they were back when I was a kid or when my parents were kids. My uncle certainly has a few stories about his misbehaving and his father was a strict disciplinarian as my mother told me every time I complained about her unfair parenting.

It was back in the 70s when the blame the parents started up wasn't it? Then it became blaming the TV. Then the school. Violent games like D&D got blamed. Rock music has been blamed since the first pelvis swivel by Elvis himself.

In this case we had a bunch of good kids (and I'll believe that until proven otherwise) who were not out causing trouble, not busting windows or doing crack or any number of things that have the hand wringers bemoaning kids these days.

Lol didn't you know it's easier to blame someone else for everything?

Anyways, I don't really want push this further because we all know where everyone stands. We all have our views. We have a partial story (from the child's view, not the police's.....yet) so we'll pick this up when more info is given.

In this case, we had a meat cleaver, beer cans, and noise complaint from the neighbour (and I'll believe that until proven otherwise) with kids possibly in life threating danger, and the police officers involved acted accordingly based upon the information recieved.

Wow, it's nice out.

Show me where the police say they were responding to claims of one kid cleavering another?

In fact the report says that the neighbour told reporters, not the police that she saw a meat cleaver and that she called the super. You are all assuming that the cops responded to the call expecting a life and death situation.

She also reported tossing a beer can back which if she tought for one second there was a threatening person there she would never dare do lest that person respond.

All in all a typical noise complaint that the cops over reacted at every single stage.

[DerbyX]

$1:

You got any evidence to support that this neighbour made up that story? or are you just saying that so you can fit it with your story? You know that kids acting like this is not a first thing, kids are not as nice as they play out to be. You would know if you had to babysit one or even a couple for more then a couple of hours.

Any evidence she wasn't?

Yes, kids do act up but they don't deserve handcuffing do they?

$1:

Don't reflect your own opinions about police on this situation. Just for that comment, I am not even going to respond to anymore of your posts on this topic, as I clearly already know that you just got a grudge against cops and all your posts will just be biased on the subject.

Really? Then why did I blame just these cops and why did I side with the RCMP in the YVR incident? What about the people on this thread who agreed with the cops here but not YVR? Do they have "vendetta's"?

Get over yourself if you can't see that my opinion is based entirely on the actions of the cops in this incident.

Perhaps youi just have a vendetta against kids and hate them all?

$1:

Actually it is the kids and parents who should be filing a apology. If the parents never left them there, they wouldn't have done all that bs, and gotten into this mess. The kids should file a apology to the cops for doing this BS, because of all the shit the cops are getting now by idiot people who think kids are saints, and everything a kid sais is 100% the trueth. Even though you got a adult at the window reporting what she saw, then cops busting in the house and seeing the same thing.

Its not that the kids were saints, but they were just horsing around. Its that they didn't deserve this treatment.

I bet you think its perfectly OK for a father to beat his child black and blue if he acts up.

By the same token believing what cops say is 100% truth is wrong and more and more we find that its far less then 100%.

$1:

Bogus reason? You mean having your kids throwing beer cans at neighbors windows which is terrorizing them, making loud noises which is terrorizing them even further, and running around with meat cleavers is bogus? Though it is abusive for a cop to report to a complaint, where you suspect you got kids who are drunk, with dangerous weapons. It's also abusive that the cops found no parents there, and decided to handcuff the kids and was going to take them to the station over night because there parents wern't there. It would have been perfectly acceptable for the cops to just have left the kids there to wait for there parents to get home? Even after that incident? rofl, I truely hope nobody in this entire world has that idiotic opinion.

How fair of you. Now the kids are terrorizing the neighbourhood and running around with meat cleavers and you base that all on the testimony of the neighbour. Its true to because adults never lie do they?

I bet if the parents only smacked their kids around more they wouldn't misbehave eh?

[DerbyX]

lily lily:

Back on topic...

Derby Derby:

In this case we had a bunch of good kids (and I'll believe that until proven otherwise)

You have no idea if they were good kids... you're merely projecting.

What about you?

Show me where the cops responded to meat cleavers and terrorizing kids? All the report says is that she told the reporters she saw a meat cleaver. She also threw back a beer can which says to me she knew damn well it wasn't a dangerous situation just a nusance one. You are just "projecting" that they knew based on your assumption that the police would not respond the way they did to a simple noise complaint. Prove they knew about the cleaver and where told it was a life and death situation justifying their actions. Until then you are just making assumptions like I am.

Yes I am projecting they are good kids. The vast majority are good kids until adults like so many on this thread beat it out of them and turn them into bad kids.

Just because a group of boys where being noisy and rough-housing, something everyboy has done, doesn't make them "bad kids".

[Brenda]

Well, if it was a good kid, this was abuse of power, and if he was a bad kid, with a meatcleaver in his hand, he wouldn't have been cuffed, because that would be too dangerous

So I stick with Derby

[Bodah]

[DerbyX]

lily lily:

Just because the majority of kids are good kids doensn't make this one a good kid.

You only know one side of the story, Derby.

And you do?

What about the police officers?

How are their records? Have they been repremanded before for this behaviour?

Why are you making this kid out to be the second coming of damien?

[mtbr]

Now there's a straight jacket and taser involved


Oh, lets not forget the LAWYER...I want my "beer and popcorn money"

[DerbyX]

lily lily:

This gets more interesting.

$1:

Lukasz Gurzynski said he and five friends were in the midst of a noisy swordfight with sticks and a loud game of Xbox on Sunday when the next-door neighbour yelled at them to quiet down.

The children turned the video game down and then went outside for a bit, said Lukasz.

When they came back to the apartment, three police officers were standing outside.

"They came [into the apartment] with their guns and kicked the door open with their guns drawn," the boy told CBC News on Wednesday. "And when they saw there was no one in here, they hid their guns."

So the kid saw all this from outside the apartment? And by "hid their guns", does he mean they holstered them?

$1:

"They started questioning me, and then after they threatened me with a Taser and they also threatened me that they'd put me in a straightjacket and take me somewhere. And then when they were done questioning me, they handcuffed me."

If that's the truth, what was the kid doing that they'd threaten him with both a taser AND a straight-jacket? Just sitting all nice and quiet like the good boy he likely is?

$1:

A neighbour called the boy's mother, Santana Gurzynski, who was at a nearby apartment, to tell her that her son had just been arrested.

So the mother was in the building.

$1:

The father, Tomasz Gurzynski, said his son is no angel

That's probably the first truthful statement this family has made.

$1:

Tomasz and Santana said that ever since the Sunday incident Lukasz has been "much calmer"

Much calmer.... that's an odd thing to say. I'm guessing that means he's not usually very calm?

cbcnews link

Well then if he were cowering in a corner to traumatized to speak then the cops would deserve a medal wouldn't they? I bet any kid traumatized like that would be more quiet and subdued also.

Why can't you accept the possibility that the cops were pissed off at a bunch of punk kids?

There are certainly enough you-tube videos of cops abusing skaters to support this.

[DerbyX]

$1:

Lukasz Gurzynski said he and five friends were in the midst of a noisy swordfight with sticks and a loud game of Xbox on Sunday when the next-door neighbour yelled at them to quiet down.

The children turned the video game down and then went outside for a bit, said Lukasz.

When they came back to the apartment, three police officers were standing outside.

"They came [into the apartment] with their guns and kicked the door open with their guns drawn," the boy told CBC News on Wednesday. "And when they saw there was no one in here, they hid their guns."

This sounds exactly right and truthful. A bunch of young boys being loud playing video games and play fighting with sticks. I doubt very much that there was any meat cleaver involved (although that does not discount the possibility that the police received that information and responded to it).

It sounds exactly like a pissed off neighbour enraged at a bunch of loud rough-housing boys and complained and that complaint got magnified. It sounds to me that the cops responded heavily and when they realized what they had they made damn sure that the situation warranted their reaction.

SOmany people are ready to have the parent drawn and quartered for "neglect" but now it seems that the mother left her son and his friends safe in her house and stepped next door to no doubt escape the shennanigans that every parent can understand.

Were the boys abandoned? Not in the least. They were certainly no less supervised then they would be if they had all jumped on their bikes and went off alone to lay in the park which I bet nobody here would think was irresponsible. I took off all the time with my friends for hours and hours far from home and years younger then these kids as did almost everybody here I bet.

She likely felt the boys were far safer playing at home then off alone in some unsupervised park where any kidnapper or pedophile can get at them.

Its pretty sad that I'm getting called some cop hating bastard by people so willing to believe the very worst of a bunch of kids who almost certainly were doing nothing worse then horsing around a little too noisy.

Whos making vile assumptions and who isn't?

[DerbyX]

lily lily:

$1:

Well then if he were cowering in a corner to traumatized to speak then the cops would deserve a medal wouldn't they? I bet any kid traumatized like that would be more quiet and subdued also.

You're doing it again, Derby. I quote the father saying his son is "much calmer" and you have him cowering in a corner, too traumatized to speak.

No, I said "if" meaning that if you believe that proves they were acting like you think then you must also believe that if the cops had traumatized the child so badly he couldn't speak then obviously they would have done an even better job.

So what if the kids is "calmer". Does that mean he was out of control" NO.

All you are doing is taking the worst possible scenario involving these kids to justify the actions of the police.

You are so willing to believe they were up to the worst possible things without so much as a shred of proof.

If you believe the father now then you shoudl also believe that he has a case against the cops because he wouldn't be pursuing the complaint if his child was acting like you seem to think he was.

No matter how you slice it, it was a bunch of kids just horsing around and who did not deserve this treatment.

[DerbyX]

lily lily:

$1:

SOmany people are ready to have the parent drawn and quartered for "neglect" but now it seems that the mother left her son and his friends safe in her house and stepped next door to no doubt escape the shennanigans that every parent can understand.

So now she was next door, eh? I wonder how she missed all the noise... not only of the kids, but the cops kicking the door in, etc.

Also - how come someone else had to call her to tell her her son had been arrested... if she was next door and all, wouldn't she have known something was going on?

Uh, you posted the quote:

$1:

A neighbour called the boy's mother, Santana Gurzynski, who was at a nearby apartment, to tell her that her son had just been arrested.

Sounds like next door is a reasonable statement.

Perhaps she didn't "hear the noise" because she didn't feel it was excessive and the neighbour was just being one of those neighbours that everybody hates to live next to.

[Heavy_Metal]

DerbyX DerbyX:

lily lily:

$1:

Well then if he were cowering in a corner to traumatized to speak then the cops would deserve a medal wouldn't they? I bet any kid traumatized like that would be more quiet and subdued also.

You're doing it again, Derby. I quote the father saying his son is "much calmer" and you have him cowering in a corner, too traumatized to speak.

No, I said "if" meaning that if you believe that proves they were acting like you think then you must also believe that if the cops had traumatized the child so badly he couldn't speak then obviously they would have done an even better job.

So what if the kids is "calmer". Does that mean he was out of control" NO.

All you are doing is taking the worst possible scenario involving these kids to justify the actions of the police.

You are so willing to believe they were up to the worst possible things without so much as a shred of proof.

If you believe the father now then you shoudl also believe that he has a case against the cops because he wouldn't be pursuing the complaint if his child was acting like you seem to think he was.

No matter how you slice it, it was a bunch of kids just horsing around and who did not deserve this treatment.

Derby, you have fought a uselesly long and completely pointless battle (for your part).

give it up, your interpretation of events are obviously coloured by your negative interaction with police and therefore the right actions taken by police are a horrible human rights violation in your eyes. It is unfortunate that you went off the deep end on this...
.....little scary actually, it's people in the same mindset as you who sue the police for acceptable actions like this....

it has been said to you time and time again, cuff for safety and to scare the crap out of the kid, the parents were in the wrong, the police had no idea what they were RUNNING into, yes all they had to go on was the neighbours interpretation of events, unfortunately the police RUNNING into a house don't have the luxury of the Monday morning quarterback, what they got was
- kids, beer, cleaver, and lots of yelling and screaming..

..now put yourself in their shoes....you gunna politely knock and ask the kid to please put the cleaver and the beer down and please be more respectful of your neighbours? you must remember Derby...a youth is fully capable the most horrendous acts imaginable, rape, murder, revenge killing, abduction/forcible confinement, heck was it last year, or the year before that one kid set up an AMBUSH to kill his family, and what did his brother get, something like 20 STAB WOUNDS!!

no wate I have an even more diabolical exapmle...that kid who made a phoney 911 call to an abandoned parking lot ONLY TO SLIT THE THROAT OF THE ATTENDING OFFICER....

k buddy, you put on that uniform and play nice, just don't be surprised when the youth you are being buddy-buddy with pulls out a glock and ends your misserable existance.

[DerbyX]

Lily, why didn't you quote these excerpts?

$1:

"They just walked him out in the handcuffs. He was all crying and shaking," she said.

The parents say they were gone from their home for 40 minutes, and two 12-year-old girls were among the children in the apartment at the time.

$1:

Lukasz said he has been having nightmares about the police raid and is startled every time he hears a door slam.

This paints a far different picture then the one you posted about earlier.

In addition;

$1:

Ottawa Police Service Const. J.P. Vincelette refused to comment on the case specifically, other than to confirm there was an incident, but added that police do handcuff children from time to time.

AKA we have to come up with an acceptable explanation.

This sounds like the absolute truth:

$1:

"So then they threw me on a chair and I have a scratch over here," said Lukasz, pointing to his back.

"They started questioning me, and then after they threatened me with a Taser and they also threatened me that they'd put me in a straightjacket and take me somewhere. And then when they were done questioning me, they handcuffed me."

A terrified ten years old so scared that he was crying and shaking while being led out in handcuffs are likely not savy enough to lie in any believable way.