[herbie]

See? The Palestinians are bad guys, and anyone who recognizes they have grievances is kissing their ass.
And policies that haven't stirred the shit and started a war are failed ones.

Simple reactions from simple minds.

[PluggyRug]

herbie herbie:

See? The Palestinians are bad guys, and anyone who recognizes they have grievances is kissing their ass.
And policies that haven't stirred the shit and started a war are failed ones.

Simple reactions from simple minds.

You speaking from experience?

[Zipperfish]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

As much as I hate to, I have to agree with Nikki Haley on this one. There is no peace process and there never has been. If there's any upside to this, my hope is that it will put that mirage to rest.

Agreed. And now, there never will be one, as the US was possibly the only country willing to negotiate with both sides.

I don't think the US, diplomatically, is a player any more on the global stage.

[Zipperfish]

Sunnyways Sunnyways:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

The issue will ultimately have to be sorted by the people of Israel and the people of Palestine, neither of which are going anywhere. My expectation is a muted response by the Palestinians compared to what is being predicted, and the Middle East in general, because--well, it's Trump being Trump.

Bilateral negotiations work best between parties with roughly equal power. However, when it's the US/Canada etc. versus some random tribe things tend to go more like those negotiations I have with Apple before I type 'I agree' to their incomprehensible new terms. And they're not even armed. It's the same reason India wants to keep third parties out over its negotiations with Pakistan over Indian Kashmir. The Indians know the people of the state would go with Pakistan tomorrow if they could (God help them) so they want keep that sort of reasonng out and let brute force have its say. Similarly, Israel stands to win from a bilateral negotiation with the Palestinians. In such situations, letting the two sort it out just means closing the cage and forgetting about equity and the like, basically trial by combat.

I hold the view that interventions by their parties acting as diplomats has merely exacerbated the status quo. There was a huge power imbalance between the United States and slaves, for example. But, in the end, the slaves removed their consent to be governed as chattel. The first few were killed, typically in a nasty manner designed to sew fear in the hearts of any other potential revolutionaries. There was an overwhelming and violent state response, supported by various citizen groups such as the KKK. But, in the end, slavery simply became unproductive and uneconomical. This is just one example. The British in India. All the empires that have tried various forms of slavery in the past.

Subjugation of teeming masses takes a lot of blood and treasure. Though there is a power imbalance, eventually the Israelis will reach this conclusion.

[BartSimpson]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

I don't think the US, diplomatically, is a player any more on the global stage.

I don't think diplomacy is a player any more on the global stage.

We're getting back to the 18th Century in quite a hurry and it's going to get very messy.

[herbie]

PluggyRug PluggyRug:

herbie herbie:

See? The Palestinians are bad guys, and anyone who recognizes they have grievances is kissing their ass.
And policies that haven't stirred the shit and started a war are failed ones.

Simple reactions from simple minds.

You speaking from experience?

Yeah your post history.

[BartSimpson]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Subjugation of teeming masses takes a lot of blood and treasure. Though there is a power imbalance, eventually the Israelis will reach this conclusion.

Except that the Israelis will choose survival over embracing extinction like the European liberals are doing.

Eventually the Muslims will force the Israelis to oust most, if not all, Muslims from Israeli territory.

"Never Again" is too deeply ingrained in the Israeli psyche for them to ever permit themselves to be threatened as they have in the past.

Someday the IDF will send the UN packing and then the tanks and bulldozers will roll into Gaza and the West Bank to put an end to the Palestinian threat. And the irony of it is that it is the Palestinians who are certain to deliver the casus belli.

[Thanos]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

As much as I hate to, I have to agree with Nikki Haley on this one. There is no peace process and there never has been. If there's any upside to this, my hope is that it will put that mirage to rest.

Agreed. And now, there never will be one, as the US was possibly the only country willing to negotiate with both sides.

I don't think the US, diplomatically, is a player any more on the global stage.

And in less than a year, from the perspective of a now apparently former friend, they've become as untrustworthy as Russia.

[BartSimpson]

Thanos Thanos:

And in less than a year, from the perspective of a now apparently former friend, they've become as untrustworthy as Russia.

Yet by default you folks still insist on trusting us with your national defense. Silly people.

Hope I never say, "I told you so."

[Thanos]

Means nothing to me. My country deserves to go under for all it's sins, crimes, and hypocrisies as much as your country does.

[Zipperfish]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Except that the Israelis will choose survival over embracing extinction like the European liberals are doing.

Eventually the Muslims will force the Israelis to oust most, if not all, Muslims from Israeli territory.

"Never Again" is too deeply ingrained in the Israeli psyche for them to ever permit themselves to be threatened as they have in the past.

Someday the IDF will send the UN packing and then the tanks and bulldozers will roll into Gaza and the West Bank to put an end to the Palestinian threat. And the irony of it is that it is the Palestinians who are certain to deliver the casus belli.

The IDF could do that right now. The UN has never stopped them before.

[martin14]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Except that the Israelis will choose survival over embracing extinction like the European liberals are doing.

Eventually the Muslims will force the Israelis to oust most, if not all, Muslims from Israeli territory.

"Never Again" is too deeply ingrained in the Israeli psyche for them to ever permit themselves to be threatened as they have in the past.

Someday the IDF will send the UN packing and then the tanks and bulldozers will roll into Gaza and the West Bank to put an end to the Palestinian threat. And the irony of it is that it is the Palestinians who are certain to deliver the casus belli.

The IDF could do that right now. The UN has never stopped them before.

Yeah, the UN... and whose army ?

[BartSimpson]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Someday the IDF will send the UN packing and then the tanks and bulldozers will roll into Gaza and the West Bank to put an end to the Palestinian threat. And the irony of it is that it is the Palestinians who are certain to deliver the casus belli.

The IDF could do that right now. The UN has never stopped them before.

They need the moral imperative to pull this off and right now they don't have it.

But say Hamas uses an Iranian nuke on Haifa or Tel Aviv and it'll be game on.

[Sunnyways]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Someday the IDF will send the UN packing and then the tanks and bulldozers will roll into Gaza and the West Bank to put an end to the Palestinian threat. And the irony of it is that it is the Palestinians who are certain to deliver the casus belli.

The IDF could do that right now. The UN has never stopped them before.

They need the moral imperative to pull this off and right now they don't have it.

But say Hamas uses an Iranian nuke on Haifa or Tel Aviv and it'll be game on.

That would be a future scenario. Iranian nukes are kinda hard to get hold of at the moment.

[herbie]

$1:

But say Hamas uses an Iranian nuke on Haifa or Tel Aviv and it'll be game on.

OMG do you think they're that fucking retarded to set a nuke off 4 feet from their own doorstep? We got the fallout when the US set of bombs in Nevada FFS, Tehran would get worse.
There's goddam ranches here bigger than Palestine, Israel and Lebanon combined. We could sink Gaza in the local lake and it wouldn't rise a whole foot.
You think these people are just plain evil plus stupid too boot?