CKA Forums
Login 
canadian forums
bottom
 
 
Canadian Forums

Author Topic Options
Offline
Forum Super Elite
Forum Super Elite
Profile
Posts: 2960
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:11 pm
 


DanSC DanSC:
rickc rickc:
Where is it written in stone that all the cheap crap has to be manufactured in China?

Nowhere. I predict that within my lifetime Africa will rival China as a source of nearly-slave labor.

I do not mean that I approve of nearly-slave labor........because I do not. However I do not have much say in that regard. Major corporations of the world are engaged in a race to the bottom. Nothing I say is going to stop that. However I would like to stop propping up governments that mean us harm. If I can choose between buying my products from a corporation that is screwing over the populace of a country that posesses no threat to my country, or buying my products from a corporation that is screwing over the populace of a country that does posess a threat to my country, my choice is clear. Both are problems. One is more immediate.


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber
 Calgary Flames
Profile
Posts: 33561
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:05 pm
 


Why would China wish harm on their largest customer and biggest borrower? It'd be bad for business and the Chinese are all about business these days. That and the fact that the US military would totally whip their asses is more than enough to keep them in line. Let them strut around the western Pacific with their joke of a blue-water navy. It means absolutely nothing compared to the overwhelming might of the American fleet and it will remain so into the foreseeable future.

Know what would make life in the United States better immediately for almost everyone who lives there? Quit looking for new enemies all the time to replace the ones you just defeated. It costs way too much for you folks to afford now and it's a pathological behviour that's getting awfully boring for the rest of us to have to put up with all the time. Fight against it all you want but some form of world peace will eventually break out. It's natural and inevitable for it to occur someday.


Offline
CKA Elite
CKA Elite
Profile
Posts: 3522
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:40 pm
 


Robair Robair:
I was thinking the same would apply, they don't buy American because they don't have the money.
I used to work at Walmart. People buy cheap imported crap because it doesn't make a difference where it's from. $2 flip flops from China vs. $3 flip flops from the USA -- who even checks where it's made?


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber
 Vancouver Canucks
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 25515
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:51 pm
 


Psudo Psudo:
Robair Robair:
I was thinking the same would apply, they don't buy American because they don't have the money.
I used to work at Walmart. People buy cheap imported crap because it doesn't make a difference where it's from. $2 flip flops from China vs. $3 flip flops from the USA -- who even checks where it's made?

Depending on the product, I do.


Offline
CKA Elite
CKA Elite
Profile
Posts: 3522
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:55 pm
 


Specifically on flip flops?

Depending on the person, depending on the product, sometimes under some conditions people care. Other times under other people or under other conditions people don't care. I guess I should have said that a lot of folks would buy American if they could afford it, but a lot of folks don't give a crap either. Both are true.





PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:26 am
 


Psudo Psudo:
Macguyver Macguyver:
The tax rate for this group in 2008 was 33%. If Bart made $300,000 that year he pays $99,000 in taxes. If the tax rate were increased 5% to 38% to offset the decrease for the other 96% of the population he will pay $114,000 in taxes.
This will never be on topic, but it's a pet peeve of mine so I'm going to bring it up anyway:

If a tax rate of 33% were increased 5% it would become 34.65%. You'd raise the tax rate 5 percentage points to reach 38%. Percent (symbolized by %) refers to a part of a whole, whereas percentage point is a discrete unit of measure. They are entirely different things.

This public service message has been brought to you by the Nitpicky Brady Committee.


Noted and appreciated. I do remember that from Econ 101. Thanks!


Offline
CKA Elite
CKA Elite
 Los Angeles Kings
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 4661
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:32 am
 


Psudo's point on percent vs. percentage points reminds me of a better way to argue for increased income taxes in the states; raise everyone's rates 10%. A 35% rate becomes a 38.5% rate, a 20% rate becomes a 22% rate, a 10% rate becomes an 11% rate, and a 0% rate stays a 0% rate. Those who can most afford it see the largest increases, those who can least afford it see the smallest increases, and those who can't afford any taxes see no increase.

Raising taxes on just the rich would likely raise almost as much revenue, but it screems of thinking, "I want to raise taxes, but on everyone else."





PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:34 am
 


Imagine the power of the US economy if there was no debt of deficit? Imagine the trillions of extra dollars being passed around and taxed...

The irony is it is a problem of their own making, and it is getting worse and worse every day. There is no doubt China will be the sole superpower. Pretty soon Alaska will be Chinese territory because the Americans cannot pay their debt.


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber
 Montreal Canadiens
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 33691
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:35 am
 


Psudo Psudo:
Robair Robair:
I was thinking the same would apply, they don't buy American because they don't have the money.
I used to work at Walmart. People buy cheap imported crap because it doesn't make a difference where it's from. $2 flip flops from China vs. $3 flip flops from the USA -- who even checks where it's made?



I always check, pretty depressing results.


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber
 Montreal Canadiens
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 33691
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:36 am
 


DanSC DanSC:
Psudo's point on percent vs. percentage points reminds me of a better way to argue for increased income taxes in the states; raise everyone's rates 10%. A 35% rate becomes a 38.5% rate, a 20% rate becomes a 22% rate, a 10% rate becomes an 11% rate, and a 0% rate stays a 0% rate. Those who can most afford it see the largest increases, those who can least afford it see the smallest increases, and those who can't afford any taxes see no increase.

Raising taxes on just the rich would likely raise almost as much revenue, but it screems of thinking, "I want to raise taxes, but on everyone else."



Lefties are good at spending other peoples' money. :)


Offline
CKA Elite
CKA Elite
 Los Angeles Kings
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 4661
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:39 am
 


Macguyver Macguyver:
Pretty soon Alaska will be Chinese territory because the Americans cannot pay their debt.

Can council cite precident? Obviously territories are transfered in ways that don't involve war, such as the United States buying Alaska from Russia. But when has a creditor nation forclosed on a debtor nation in such a way as to aquire the debtor's territory? By this logic Greece should be a German territory by now.


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber


GROUP_AVATAR
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 23084
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:48 am
 


rickc rickc:
For the sake of argument, lets say that North Americans are hooked on the cheap crap being imported from China. We just can't live without it. Where is it written in stone that all the cheap crap has to be manufactured in China? The world is full of third world countries that would love to have western corporations set up sweat shops in thier country. Countries whose population does not comprise 1/4 of the worlds population. Countries that do not posess nuclear weopons, and are pursuing a blue water navy to project power around the globe. Countries that are not stealing our intellectial property , hacking our computors, disregarding copyright and patent laws. I read somewhere that China is the number one source for counterfeight products in the world. These are not the type of people I want to do business with. China is acting more like an adversarial power every day. I say it is high time to start treating them like an adversary.

When we were fighting the cold war, we were not setting up manufacturing plants,and moving jobs to Warsaw Pact countries. It was and still is illegal to export advanced tech. to unapproved countries. I cannot legally visit Cuba. I would be charged under the aiding the enemy act. What a joke that is! However I can visit China. I can send them thousands of Dollars a year by buying their products to help them build up their military,and steal our tech. Who is going to be the bigger threat in 50 years, Cuba or China? I say lets starting treating China the same way we did the Soviet Union. Order American companies to pull up stakes and move elsewhere. Put massive tarrifs on products coming from China, or an outright ban. Lets do our best to run China in the ground the same way we did the U.S.S.R. Americans are at their best when they are united behind a common cause. Mustafa riding his camel to work in the desert every day is not cutting it any more. That has ran its course. We need a new boogyman, a real threat if you will. Who better fits the job descpription than China? If China wants to challenge America for world dominance, go for it.We Americans need a challenge. We have grown lazy after the fall of the Soviet Union. We need to awaken from our malaise. Lets see how well China fares when we are not financing their accent. I think we can easily prolong the empire for a few hundred more years if we quit assisting our potential enemies, and get our financial house in order.


As Dan noted, there is nothing 'written in stone' that says products need to be manufactured in China.

China became a dominant manufacturer for three big reasons. First they liberalized their economy and allowed foreign investment - the first of which came from Hong Kong and later Taiwan. Many western companies were already getting manufactured goods from Hong Kong/Taiwan and those suppliers suddenly saw a massive, cheap labour market to get their goods from, and so they built factories in coastal areas (Guandong, Shanghai, Fujian, Qingdao, etc.). Second, China spent every penny it possibly could on building up their infrastructure, including building cities specifically geared towards exports (Shenzen for example). Finally, China had a massive labour force that worked for pennies a day.

However, as time goes on, China's labour costs have increased (especially in coastal provinces/cities), and low tech industries (like textiles) can now be made for even less in other places (Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Thailand, etc). That will increase over the next couple of decades, and other industries will shift from China to some other place with cheap labour (maybe Africa as Dan said, or maybe SE Asia or even Latin America), simply because shifting those industries farther inland to access cheap pools of labour (like maybe Xinjinag province) would probably be a zero-sum game once transportation costs are added in.

Frankly, I don't foresee China becoming a major naval power, mostly because they are a continental power, not an oceanic power. China has Russia on its northern flank, India on its southern flank, and a whack of Muslim nations on its western flank. A huge navy would be of limited use in fighting those neighbours. A navy is a great prestige thing, and they can use it to bully weaker neighbours, but I can't foresee a day when the PLAN is a match for the USN. Sure, they'll invest in subs, a few carriers, etc, but they'll never have a force capable of matching the USN anytime soon.

Finally, China is a distant threat, and I don't really see it as one with global domination issues. China has never really had a leader like Napoleon, Alexander, Genghis Khan, etc. They do see themselves as the centre of the universe, and I'm sure that someday they'd love to see the West kowtowing to them, but if that ever happens, it will be far more likely in an economic sense than a military one - which unfortunately is the path down which the West is currently heading.

This is off-topic, but for all that is said on CKA (and elsewhere) about Canada leaching off US protection, the fact is that the US gains too from having Canada as its neighbour. Imagine if Russia or China was here instead of Canada? The US would need to constantly maintain a large ground army to protect itself, and that would have limited the size of its naval power. Development in the US would also have occurred very differently, simply because it would be suicide to place your most of your manufacturing (Detroit, Pittsburgh, etc) so close to the border with a potentially hostile nation.


Offline
CKA Elite
CKA Elite
Profile
Posts: 3522
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:45 am
 


DanSC DanSC:
Psudo's point on percent vs. percentage points reminds me of a better way to argue for increased income taxes in the states; raise everyone's rates 10%. A 35% rate becomes a 38.5% rate, a 20% rate becomes a 22% rate, a 10% rate becomes an 11% rate, and a 0% rate stays a 0% rate.
I like it! We could call it a flat proportional tax increase. It needs some closing of loopholes included, and I can imagine politicians having desperate problems understanding and explaining it. But the thought of watching that on C-Span is just one more reason to love the idea. =]


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 33492
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:52 am
 


I agree, that's a good idea. But if you close all your loopholes, how much would you really need to raise your taxes? Get rid of the mortgage deduction, for instance. And closing loopholes will also effectively raise taxes on the better off, since they have the money to take advantage of them in the first place.


Offline
CKA Moderator
CKA Moderator
 Vancouver Canucks


GROUP_AVATAR
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 65472
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:49 am
 


Psudo Psudo:
Macguyver Macguyver:
The tax rate for this group in 2008 was 33%. If Bart made $300,000 that year he pays $99,000 in taxes. If the tax rate were increased 5% to 38% to offset the decrease for the other 96% of the population he will pay $114,000 in taxes.
This will never be on topic, but it's a pet peeve of mine so I'm going to bring it up anyway:

If a tax rate of 33% were increased 5% it would become 34.65%. You'd raise the tax rate 5 percentage points to reach 38%. Percent (symbolized by %) refers to a part of a whole, whereas percentage point is a discrete unit of measure. They are entirely different things.

This public service message has been brought to you by the Nitpicky Brady Committee.
Image


Raising tax rates from 33% to 38% is a 15% increase.


Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 69 posts ]  Previous  1  2  3  4  5  Next



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests




 
     
All logos and trademarks in this site are property of their respective owner.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © Canadaka.net. Powered by © phpBB.