[GunPlumber]

Scape Scape:

12 warning signs of fascism

Rampant sexism - Governments of fascist states tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Traditional gender roles are made even more rigid and exaggerated. Condemnation of abortion and a virulent homophobia are commonly built into broad policy.

So how does Condi and the other female members of the government figure into this? Bush has appointed a more diverse set of top advisers than any president in history. Yet Roe vs Wade is on shaky ground with the recent appointment of supreme court justice John G. Roberts Jr who has refused to disclose his position and from his history shows that he will most liky overturn it. It is Bolton, not Rice, that is the real face of the Bush administration.

Scape,

Are you trying to make the case FOR sexism in Bush's cabinet?

If you're going to title a link "Bush has appointed a more diverse set of top advisers than any president in history", it wouldn't hurt to actually READ the article to ensure it backs-up YOUR assertion. If you'd done that, you'd have found this paragraph halfway down the page:

$1:

In Clinton's first term, 47% of those he appointed to the Cabinet were women or people of color. Bush had precisely the same percentage in his first term. By the end of Clinton's second term, his figure had risen to 52%. The seven nominations Bush has made in the past month raise his percentage to 50%."

By the way, the article is titled "Bush is opening doors with a diverse Cabinet". Notice the words 'most' and 'more' ARE NOT used?

At any rate, isn't the purpose of Equal Rights initiatives to make sure the most qualified person is promoted, regardless of gender or race? Isn't promoting people because of their minority status just another form of racism/sexism? And isn't it a kind of self-serving denial of intolerance to brag about your groups 'diversity' (whether you're a liberal or conservative)?

Do we even want to discuss the 'qualifications' of Bush's 'diversity' appointments (if so, let's do it in another thread, so that this one can stay on topic)?

[Patrick_Ross]

There's also the matter of the individuals themselves. Take, for example, Condoleeza Rice, Colin Powell and Alberto Gonzales, you have to consider a number of common traits. They are all:

-Affluent
-Wealthy
-Educated

In the way that the media treats them, they are practically "white". In a media environment that overwhelmingly provides poor representation of minorities, they are a number of fairly rare exceptions. In essence, they have been washed -- or re-raced.

[GunPlumber]

Well, Powell at least had some pre-Bush political credentials, having worked at Defence in the Nixon, Reagan and Bush I administrations. Then again, if he was a Serbian, he would've been tried for war crimes by now. Then again, so would most of the people he worked for (Carlucci, Weinberger, et al).

[ShepherdsDog]

OK based on the criteria that you've listed here, would it not be correct to list the PRC as a facist state, rather than a communist state?

[BartSimpson]

Patrick_Ross Patrick_Ross:

There's also the matter of the individuals themselves. Take, for example, Condoleeza Rice, Colin Powell and Alberto Gonzales, you have to consider a number of common traits. They are all:

-Affluent
-Wealthy
-Educated

In the way that the media treats them, they are practically "white". In a media environment that overwhelmingly provides poor representation of minorities, they are a number of fairly rare exceptions. In essence, they have been washed -- or re-raced.

This is really bigoted and narrow-minded of the media. That these people are successful, educated, intelligent, and conservative does not in any way mean they are "white" it means they are realizing the dreams their parents had for them.

I REALLY hate this BULLSHIT from liberals who just have to find a way to hate someone - they can't possibly allow themselves to say hateful things against a minority so what's their loophole? "they have been washed -- or re-raced" and so now it's okay to hate them because now they're 'officially' white.

The real colour of hatred is seen when you realize that Rice, Powell, and Gonzales would be acceptable to the media and the liberals if only they were poor, illiterate, and welfare dependent. Successful minorities are portrayed as race traitors or as somehow betraying their fellows.

THIS is bigotry.

[Blue_Nose]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

The real colour of hatred is seen when you realize that Rice, Powell, and Gonzales would be acceptable to the media and the liberals if only they were poor, illiterate, and welfare dependent. Successful minorities are portrayed as race traitors or as somehow betraying their fellows.

How are people supposed to feel good by feeling sorry for minorities, if they go around be all wealthy and educated?

Perfect example of how many people use sympathy as entertainment, and not as anything constructive.

[BartSimpson]

Blue_Nose Blue_Nose:

How are people supposed to feel good by feeling sorry for minorities, if they go around be all wealthy and educated?

Perfect example of how many people use sympathy as entertainment, and not as anything constructive.

Well said.

[Scape]

GunPlumber GunPlumber:

If you're going to title a link "Bush has appointed a more diverse set of top advisers than any president in history", it wouldn't hurt to actually READ the article to ensure it backs-up YOUR assertion.

I was adding that article to add depth not to push an agenda. Glad you read it, so did I as it was the reason why I posted and titled it as such. Your astute observation that my link and the title of the article are not the same ring true, your truly a master of the obvious.

GunPlumber GunPlumber:

At any rate, isn't the purpose of Equal Rights initiatives to make sure the most qualified person is promoted, regardless of gender or race? Isn't promoting people because of their minority status just another form of racism/sexism? And isn't it a kind of self-serving denial of intolerance to brag about your groups 'diversity' (whether you're a liberal or conservative)?

The argument is not for equal rights initiatives, you have lost your way. The argument is rampant sexism as it pertains to the 14 points of fascism. If Roe vs Wade is overturned that would be a key indicator far more so than the number of non-white people holding positions of power.

Moving on:

Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

Roberts Donated Help to Gay Rights Case

$1:

WASHINGTON — Supreme Court nominee John G. Roberts Jr. worked behind the scenes for gay rights activists, and his legal expertise helped them persuade the Supreme Court to issue a landmark 1996 ruling protecting people from discrimination because of their sexual orientation.

Now if Roberts is key in overturning Roe vs Wade will his financial aid to a gay rights ruling be a red herring in this instance?

[Patrick_Ross]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

This is really bigoted and narrow-minded of the media. That these people are successful, educated, intelligent, and conservative does not in any way mean they are "white" it means they are realizing the dreams their parents had for them.

I REALLY hate this BULLSHIT from liberals who just have to find a way to hate someone - they can't possibly allow themselves to say hateful things against a minority so what's their loophole? "they have been washed -- or re-raced" and so now it's okay to hate them because now they're 'officially' white.

The real colour of hatred is seen when you realize that Rice, Powell, and Gonzales would be acceptable to the media and the liberals if only they were poor, illiterate, and welfare dependent. Successful minorities are portrayed as race traitors or as somehow betraying their fellows.

THIS is bigotry.

Once again, Bart shows his true colors, which... aren't that bad, really.

But the point a lot of people who cite this theory hold (I should have noted that it is a theory, not a fact) is that the issue is not with the presentation of those who have been "re-raced", but rather with the presentation of these minorities are large.
For example, minorities are (in the opinions of some):
-Ridiculed for being too different, or ridiculed for not being different enough
-Viewed as being socially diversive, as opposed to being socially collective (interested in their own concerns, not that of the community).

This is merely a short of example of how some view the media presentation of minorities.

[Patrick_Ross]

I was doing some additional reading, and I came across this:

http://www.couplescompany.com/Features/ ... cture3.htm

$1:

The 7 conditions (Warning signs)
that foster & fuel fascism are:

1. Instability of capitalist relationships or markets

2. The existence of considerable declassed social elements

3. The stripping of rights and wealth focused upon a specific segment of the population, specifically the middle class and intellectuals within urban areas as this the group with the means, intelligence and ability to stop fascism if given the opportunity.

4. Discontent among the rural lower middle class (clerks, secretaries, white collar labor). Consistent discontent among the general middle and lower middle classes against the oppressing upper-classes (haves vs have-nots).

5. Hate: Pronounced, perpetuated and accepted public disdain of a specific group defined by race, origin, theology or association.

6. Greed: The motivator of fascism, which is generally associated with land, space or scarce resources in the possession of those being oppressed.

7. Organized Propaganda:

a) The creation of social mythology that venerates (creates saints of) one element of society while concurrently vilifying (dehumanizing) another element of the population through misinformation, misdirection and the obscuring of factual matter through removal, destruction or social humiliation, (name-calling, false accusations, belittling and threats).

b) The squelching of public debate not agreeing with the popular agenda via slander, libel, threats, theft, destruction, historical revisionism and social humiliation. Journalists in particular are terrorized if they attempt to publish stories contrary to the agenda.

Interesting. There are a wide abundance of theories regarding fascism, and the more of them I read, the more of them seem to compliment each other in certain areas.

[Patrick_Ross]

True. When studying facism, there really are a few regimes that tend to suck up all the attention.

[Tman1]

Patrick_Ross Patrick_Ross:

True. When studying facism, there really are a few regimes that tend to suck up all the attention.

Uhh Ralph Klein?

[Patrick_Ross]

...No.

[Revolver]

I registered to post this because I hate it when people spread dis/misinformation about a subject as important as fascism. Somebody in the thread was concerned that Britt didn't mention Stalinist Russia or Maoist China as examples of fascism. The reason for these "omissions" is plain: state socialism is not fascism. Fascism is authoritarian capitalism, something altogether different from state socialism.

[Scape]

You registered for that? I thought the hoochie mama's would have been a far better reason than necroing a 2 year stale thread but hey, to each their own I suppose...