[Zipperfish]

travior travior:

I didn't say that Bush improved things. I will be the first one to admit that I wish he had not won the second term. However, other than the unending war in Iraq, the economic problems we are having got started by the policy changes of Clinton. The deregulation of the financial sector, the granting of prefered trade status to China, the lost opportunity to kill bin Laden, which Clinton himself admits was the worst mistake he made as president. Most presidents do not get to take the credit or blame for their policies. It ususally takes 4-8 years for the effects of those decisions (other than war, etc.) to fully take effect.

I am also not saying that McCain will make a utopia out of this quagmire that we are so deeply stuck in. I AM saying that he is the lesser of two evils at this point. I do not think that any of us has seen the real Obama and that if he wins and manages to keep his sorry ass alive until inauguration, that the gloves will come off and we will see his true colours.

What is so frustrating is to hear so many people say that they are voting for him solely because they want to help make history by electing the first black man even though they do not agree with his policies and ideas. If you want to make history, call the Guiness Book of World Records and do something stupid. Do not jepordise what little country we have left just to make history.

No. If you are a Republican, you have to take responsibility for what you have wrought. The one I get a kick out of was Manifest Destiny blaming Jimmy Carter for the recent economic meltdown. The Republicans have been in power for 8 years, during much of which they had control of congress and high public support.

The Republicans in this campaign have offered the American people nothing postive. All they seem to be able to do is launch attacks at Obama--many of them of the nefarious variety. You say McCain is "the lesser of two evils"? What kind of positive vision is that? "Vote for us because at least we're better than a guy who pals around with terrorists"? Even now McCain and Palin are spewing bile, whereas Obama is offering a positive vision. It's Fear and Smear, and hopefully the good people of America have had enough of it.

True, Clinton was a fan of deregualtion, but, come one--do you really expect us to believe that the Republicans would have been in favour of regulation? Deregualtion has been the buzzword for both sides of the aisle since Reagan. And even if it were true, Bush had eight years to act, but didn't.

Some may be voting for Obama because he's balck. Some may be voting for MCain because he's not. But a lot of them will be looking back eight years and asking "Am I better off now than I was then?" and voting for Obama.

[2Cdo]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

No. If you are a Republican, you have to take responsibility for what you have wrought. The one I get a kick out of was Manifest Destiny blaming Jimmy Carter for the recent economic meltdown. The Republicans have been in power for 8 years, during much of which they had control of congress and high public support.

I agree with taking responsibility for ones party, and to blame the peanut farmer for the economy today is insane. The republicans have been in power for 20 of the last 28 years, I mean really, Carter has been a non-entity for almost 30 years. (more than 30 if you count his time in office )

[hwacker]

Gee Zip you're a one man DNC talking point.

B-HO is a huge BS'er, empty suit that talks a bunch of shit he can't guarantee. People are stupid who believe his crap, if he gets in the USA will be so fucked that Carter will look like a Neo Con.

[Zipperfish]

hwacker hwacker:

Gee Zip you're a one man DNC talking point.

B-HO is a huge BS'er, empty suit that talks a bunch of shit he can't guarantee. People are stupid who believe his crap, if he gets in the USA will be so fucked that Carter will look like a Neo Con.

You prove my point, hwacker. You've nothing positive to offer; just more trashing of Obama. Fear and Smear. I rest my case!

[hwacker]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

hwacker hwacker:

Gee Zip you're a one man DNC talking point.

B-HO is a huge BS'er, empty suit that talks a bunch of shit he can't guarantee. People are stupid who believe his crap, if he gets in the USA will be so fucked that Carter will look like a Neo Con.

You prove my point, hwacker. You've nothing positive to offer; just more trashing of Obama. Fear and Smear. I rest my case!

If you don't fear that BSer you've already drinkin the koolaid.


the guy is full of SHIT.

[Zipperfish]

hwacker hwacker:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

hwacker hwacker:

Gee Zip you're a one man DNC talking point.

B-HO is a huge BS'er, empty suit that talks a bunch of shit he can't guarantee. People are stupid who believe his crap, if he gets in the USA will be so fucked that Carter will look like a Neo Con.

You prove my point, hwacker. You've nothing positive to offer; just more trashing of Obama. Fear and Smear. I rest my case!

If you don't fear that BSer you've already drinkin the koolaid.


the guy is full of SHIT.

No, I don't fear him, or John McCain for that matter. Maybe you're just too easily scared. BOO!

[hwacker]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

No, I don't fear him, or John McCain for that matter. Maybe you're just too easily scared. BOO!

No i can see the truth, B-HO raised 100M in Sept, yeah ok can you say fraud.

The whole B-HO dream is a scam but why am i telling you you're a KA drinking "liberal"

[bootlegga]

lily lily:

From: Blue States

Dear Red States:

If you manage to steal this election, too, we've decided we're leaving. We intend to form our own country, and we're taking the other Blue States with us. In case you aren't aware, that includes California, Hawaii, Oregon, Washington, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois and all the Northeast. We believe this split will be beneficial to the nation, and especially to the people of the new country of New California.

To sum up briefly: You get Texas, Oklahoma and all the slave states. We get stem cell research and the best beaches. We get the Statue of Liberty. You get Dollywood.

We get Intel and Microsoft. You get WorldCom.

We get Harvard. You get Ole' Miss.

We get 85% of America's venture capital and entrepreneurs. You get Alabama.

We get two-thirds of the tax revenue, you get to make the red states pay their fair share.

Since our aggregate divorce rate is 22% lower than the Christian Coalition's, we get a bunch of happy families. You get a bunch of single moms.

Please be aware that Nuevo California will be pro-choice and anti-war, and we're going to want all our citizens back from Iraq at once. If you need people to fight, ask your evangelicals. They have kids they're apparently willing to send to their deaths for no purpose, and they don't care if you don't show pictures of their children's caskets coming home. We do wish you success in Iraq, and hope that the WMDs turn up, but we're not willing to spend our resources in Bush's Quagmire.

With the Blue States in hand, we will have firm control of 80% of the country's fresh water, more than 90% of the pineapple and lettuce, 92% of the nation's fresh fruit, 95% of America's quality wines, 90% of all cheese, 90% of the high tech industry, 95% of the corn and soybeans (thanks Iowa!), most of the U.S. low-sulfur coal, all living redwoods, sequoias and condors, all the Ivy and Seven Sister schools plus Stanford, Cal Tech, UCLA, Berkeley and MIT.

With the Red States, on the other hand, you will have to cope with 88% of all obese Americans (and their projected health care costs), 92% of all U.S. mosquitoes, nearly 100% of the tornadoes, 90% of the hurricanes, 99% of all Southern Baptists, virtually 100% of all televangelists, Rush Limbaugh, Bob Jones University, Clemson and the University of Georgia.

We get Hollywood and Yosemite, thank you.

Additionally, 38% of those in the Red states believe Jonah was actually swallowed by a whale, 62% believe life is sacred unless we're discussing the war, the death penalty or gun laws, 44% say that evolution is only a theory, 53% that Saddam was involved in 9/11 and 61% of you crazy bastards believe you are people with higher morals then we lefties.

Finally, we're taking the good pot, too. You can have that dirt weed they grow in Mexico.

Peace out,

--Blue States

[N_Fiddledog]

$1:

You prove my point, hwacker. You've nothing positive to offer; just more trashing of Obama. Fear and Smear. I rest my case!

When you talk "fear and smear" though, don't you think both sides have made the points coming out of that pretty good, and as far as the points go they both might have one?

I mean either you fear the feed the rich, trickle down economics, continued militarism, and failed neo-con policies of the Republicans, or the good indications of a coming Obama change through socialism, with big government, wasteful spending, hidden taxes, loss of freedoms, and dismantling of the constitution we see in the Democrats.

With both there's good reason to fear. The question for Americans this election appears to be which do you fear most.

[Zipperfish]

hwacker hwacker:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

No, I don't fear him, or John McCain for that matter. Maybe you're just too easily scared. BOO!

No i can see the truth, B-HO raised 100M in Sept, yeah ok can you say fraud.

The whole B-HO dream is a scam but why am i telling you you're a KA drinking "liberal"

I am indeed a liberal. My mom never let me drink kool-ade though. Probably because she was a liberal.

[Zipperfish]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

$1:

You prove my point, hwacker. You've nothing positive to offer; just more trashing of Obama. Fear and Smear. I rest my case!

When you talk "fear and smear" though, don't you think both sides have made the points coming out of that pretty good, and as far as the points go they both might have one?

I mean either you fear the feed the rich, trickle down economics, continued militarism, and failed neo-con policies of the Republicans, or the good indications of a coming Obama change through socialism, with big government, wasteful spending, hidden taxes, loss of freedoms, and dismantling of the constitution we see in the Democrats.

With both there's good reason to fear. The question for Americans this election appears to be which do you fear most.

Sure both sides use it. But there's a difference between Obama's "failed policies of George W Bush" and Palin's "palling around with terrorists." They are not equivalent. McCain's entire campaign has been negative. Even yesterday, when I saw him speak, he didn't make one comment about what he would do; just all the nasty things Obama would do.

I like John McCain, and I like to think this whole thing wasn't his idea, though I doubt I'll ever know. I know he interrupted some wingnut at one of his rallies to stand up for Barack Obama as a "decent man" and that went a long way in my book. So I don't "fear" either candidate. I think there's all too much fear out there these days.

Whereas Obama has taken shots at McCain, the gist of his campaign has been a positive message.

I'm sorry, given the record of deficits over the last 20 or 30 years, I think you really need to move that wasteful spending into the Republican column.

[Scape]

Who stacked the courts and Fema? A vote for cronyism is a vote for the GOP.

[hwacker]

Scape Scape:

Who stacked the courts and Fema? A vote for cronyism is a vote for the GOP.

Who fucked up the sub prime ?

DNC that's who, if you lost money in the last couple months it's because of B-HO's buddies. Barney "can I have your" Franks........

Scape you've really gone off the deep end the last while.

[sandorski]

hwacker hwacker:

Scape Scape:

Who stacked the courts and Fema? A vote for cronyism is a vote for the GOP.

Who fucked up the sub prime ?

GOP that's who, if you lost money in the last couple months it's because of Bush's buddies. Dubyah "Mushroom Clouds!" Bush........

Scape you've really gone off the deep end the last while.

fixed for accuracy

[hwacker]

sandorski sandorski:

hwacker hwacker:

Scape Scape:

Who stacked the courts and Fema? A vote for cronyism is a vote for the GOP.

Who fucked up the sub prime ?

GOP that's who, if you lost money in the last couple months it's because of Bush's buddies. Dubyah "Mushroom Clouds!" Bush........

Scape you've really gone off the deep end the last while.

fixed for accuracy

Wrong dummy.