[Lemmy]

Unsound Unsound:

Actually, I'm not even so much trying to defend the OP, although I do think there are a whole lot of better ways to deal with a post like his. It was more everyone jumping on the next guy who was trying to defend the OP ,just a little, that gets to me.

As well, I was originally trying to stay out of this thread because i do, in fact, agree with a lot of what's been said about the original post. The problem is that i've gotten so annoyed with this whole high school clique thing that's been getting worse and worse lately that I just waded in despite my reservations.

While you're abslolutely right that just as the OP has a right to say what he said so does everyone else, I would like to think CKA is better than that. Is it really neccesary for 100 people to jump on the guy and start calling him names? Aren't we smarter than that around here? Isn't it possible him saying she was weak could be rebutted with a few facts about depression and how it's an illness that can't be cured just by "toughening up"? If people are only interested in running up 12 pages of "youre a shitstain" type posts, i feel like there are better places for that. /rant

You're absolutley right. And the original poster still deserves a punch in the face.

[Gunnair]

And yet it continues to be curious that the freedom of speech thing seems to go one way only. Again, it appears that two or three seem to be focusing all if their ire on one aspect of freedom if speech while a passing finger wagging at the other. In fact, a bunch of people exercising freedom of speech is now gang trolling and bullying when the argue with the OP.

Is it unfair to get lumped in? Maybe. But if you're not shy about rolling into a hot topic and taking a controversial side while tossing out inflammatory labels such as bullying and gang trolling, don't then get all upset if you get swept up.

Maybe waiting for the heat of the argument to fade might be wiser then to wade into it swinging and tossing out labels in anger for those tossing out labels.

Just saying...

[Lemmy]

A good portion of the justification for free speech is to allow/encourage people to call out speech that is unacceptable. Unsound makes good points regarding decorum and the desire for intelligent discourse. Sometimes, however, people say things that are so unintelligent, ridiculous and/or objectionable that it's not out of place to respond strongly.

There'd be no benefit to protecting free speech without society's power to respond to inappropriate speech. I'd say that's mostly what's happened here. I certainly don't want to silence idiots like this poster. It's better for society to have anti-social scumbags identified and held accountable for their morally bankrupt behaviour in the court of public opinion. And he STILL deserves a punch in the face!

[Gunnair]

Lemmy Lemmy:

A good portion of the justification for free speech is to allow/encourage people to call out speech that is unacceptable. Unsound makes good points regarding decorum and the desire for intelligent discourse. Sometimes, however, people say things that are so unintelligent, ridiculous and/or objectionable that it's not out of place to respond strongly.

There'd be no benefit to protecting free speech without society's power to respond to inappropriate speech. I'd say that's mostly what's happened here. I certainly don't want to silence idiots like this poster. It's better for society to have anti-social scumbags identified and held accountable for their morally bankrupt behaviour in the court of public opinion. And he STILL deserves a punch in the face!

Agreed. I don't think there was much call for his silence but there was certainly a lot of food for thought in the reaction he got....or at least one hopes if he's got any brains. Obviously if he surrounds himself with like minded idiots he's not going to get the feedback he got here with those who don't seem to side with his world view.

Them again, it appears that maybe the groups that shout down Phelps and his ilk are just bullies

[Bodah]

Lemmy Lemmy:

A good portion of the justification for free speech is to allow/encourage people to call out speech that is unacceptable. Unsound makes good points regarding decorum and the desire for intelligent discourse. Sometimes, however, people say things that are so unintelligent, ridiculous and/or objectionable that it's not out of place to respond strongly.

There'd be no benefit to protecting free speech without society's power to respond to inappropriate speech. I'd say that's mostly what's happened here. I certainly don't want to silence idiots like this poster. It's better for society to have anti-social scumbags identified and held accountable for their morally bankrupt behaviour in the court of public opinion. And he STILL deserves a punch in the face!

We should keep in mind that this is a private forum and the owner can set any rules he sees fit, it isn't a democracy. Prohibiting personal insults wouldn't be a bad thing. IMO I know Trevor tried this awhile back but I think it was a vocal minority that didn't like it and it was let go, that's too bad.

That's why I think there should be a section in the forum where people are allowed to call out someone on anything they want and how they want, Insults allowed. If the person being insulted wants to engage that type of behaviour they can go there, or they don't have too. Otherwise you'll have to convience the person through civilized dialogue why you think they're wrong, you know like grown ups ? And the rest of us won't have to worry about threads spinning out of control degraded to personal insults that appears to be more common around here.

But it has to be limited to only there, with zero tolerance for that behaviour any where else in the forum. It would make CKA a much better place.

As it stands this place has kind of turned into a bar with a small group of boorish regulars that scare off new customers. Bad for business.

[andyt]

That's a pretty good idea. But, you might want to check with the mods, see if they're interested in patrolling that sort of thing.

CKA is what it is. The OP said something disgusting. People chose to gang up on him and Unsound called them on it in his usual polite way. So it goes. We're all here by choice.

[Lemmy]

Good points, Bodah. On the otherhand, if I'm in a bar and some guy comes in and starts shouting that a bullied, 15 year-old suicide victim deserved to die, the management or patrons better give him the bum's rush or I'm going to find another watering hole.

[Bodah]

andyt andyt:

That's a pretty good idea. But, you might want to check with the mods, see if they're interested in patrolling that sort of thing.

CKA is what it is. The OP said something disgusting. People chose to gang up on him and Unsound called them on it in his usual polite way. So it goes. We're all here by choice.

Well I started a poll so they can get an idea of what kind of support they'd get from members. It wouldn't be hard to patrol but they'd just have to be consistent and fair about it. Doesn't matter who's insulting, call some one a "fucking retard" you get a warning. etc...

How it could work in the case of the OP, if people really have to insult him. That poster could post a link in the "civilized" thread staing something like OP your presence is requested in aisle 13 or what ever it's called the person being insulted can go there and engage if they choose too, and the rest of us don't have to watch yet another thread spiral out of control.

If long time members don't like it tough, how many times have we seen new people here join up, then never here from them again. Maybe it's coming across as a hostile place held hostage by a few curmudgeons.

[Gunnair]

Bodah Bodah:

andyt andyt:

That's a pretty good idea. But, you might want to check with the mods, see if they're interested in patrolling that sort of thing.

CKA is what it is. The OP said something disgusting. People chose to gang up on him and Unsound called them on it in his usual polite way. So it goes. We're all here by choice.

Well I started a poll so they can get an idea of what kind of support they'd get from members. It wouldn't be hard to patrol but they'd just have to be consistent and fair about it. Doesn't matter who's insulting, call some one a "fucking retard" you get a warning. etc...

How it could work in the case of the OP, if people really have to insult him. That poster could post a link in the "civilized" thread staing something like OP your presence is requested in aisle 13 or what ever it's called the person being insulted can go there and engage if they choose too, and the rest of us don't have to watch yet another thread spiral out of control.

If long time members don't like it tough, how many times have we seen new people here join up, then never here from them again. Maybe it's coming across as a hostile place held hostage by a few curmudgeons.

Interesting to try and very difficult to moderate based on what people would consider as insulting.

Curious though, you've done your own insulting in the past. What changed now?

[Bodah]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Interesting to try and very difficult to moderate based on what people would consider as insulting.

Curious though, you've done your own insulting in the past. What changed now?

Direct personal insults wouldn't be hard to moderate at all.

Yes I have. When in Rome.

CKA is one of the forums I've been a part of for long time, and I visit other forums that have this no insult policy unless in a specific place it works very well and makes it an interesting and mature place. I'd like to see that kind of thing happen to CKA, one of my favorite forums.

[Gunnair]

Bodah Bodah:

Gunnair Gunnair:

Interesting to try and very difficult to moderate based on what people would consider as insulting.

Curious though, you've done your own insulting in the past. What changed now?

Direct personal insults wouldn't be hard to moderate at all.

Yes I have. When in Rome.

CKA is one of the forums I've been a part of for long time, and I visit other forums that have this no insult policy unless in a specific place it works very well and makes it an interesting and mature place. I'd like to see that kind of thing happen to CKA, one of my favorite forums.

Huh. Well alright though feeling this strongly and yet doing the when in Rome deal.

Gotcha.

Well, let's see if there's buy in.

[Brenda]

What about offensive threads like this one? Are they going to be moved to that section? Of course this is just an opinion-thread, but there are also news threads that people might find offensive... How would that work?

[Bodah]

Brenda Brenda:

What about offensive threads like this one? Are they going to be moved to that section? Of course this is just an opinion-thread, but there are also news threads that people might find offensive... How would that work?

If a mod believes a thread based on the topic matter is offensive, outrageous in nature and outrage is inevitable eg. "All Canadians are flesh eating frost monkeys" the can move it right to that part of the forum, where insults are allowed.

But I'm only talking about direct personal insults here, if you find a thread offensive you can go in there and civily discuss why you think a persons OP is wrong based on subject not their beliefs, but you can't insult them.

[Bodah]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Huh. Well alright though feeling this strongly and yet doing the when in Rome deal.

Gotcha.

Well, let's see if there's buy in.

I get the lead by example thing, but in the grand scheme of things I'm just a poster like anyone else. I do try and avoid direct personal insults, but heck if everyone else does it so once and awhile I slip and join in because let's face it can be fun, but often that comes at a price of a thread going on page after page with insults and the thread is dead, Fred. Dead.

If it was in place where I could face a ban, I'd follow the rules without question.

[Brenda]

Bodah Bodah:

Brenda Brenda:

What about offensive threads like this one? Are they going to be moved to that section? Of course this is just an opinion-thread, but there are also news threads that people might find offensive... How would that work?

If a mod believes a thread based on the topic matter is offensive, outrageous in nature and outrage is inevitable eg. "All Canadians are flesh eating frost monkeys" the can move it right to that part of the forum, where insults are allowed.

But I'm only talking about direct personal insults here, if you find a thread offensive you can go in there and civily discuss why you think a persons OP is wrong based on subject not their beliefs, but you can't insult them.

That's not fair tho. It is ok for the OP to insult whomever or whatever, but you can't call them an asshole for doing so...