[kenmore]

I have nieces and nephews in the Bauce area and their English is poor to say the least..I asked and was told they didnt take much of it at school.. like I said they sing current songs that are popular but really dont know the meaning.. english does not have to be taken as a subject.. so I am told.. checking this out ..will get back to you

[MacDonaill]

Elvis Elvis:

N'ahh L'ADQ et Le PQ était au coude à coude pour l'électorat Francophone à cet époque et le tout ce jouait dans la marge d'érreur. Maintenant on parle d'une avance de 15%, Ouf méchante marge d'érreur ça!

Je te dis qu'avant l'élection du 26 mars dernier, j'ai vu des sondages disant que le PQ aurait 60% du vote. Alors, voilà. Les sondages ne valent à rien. L'ADQ aura probablement les prochaines élections, maintenant que les campagnards savent qu'ils peuvent gagner. En ville, ce sera entre le PLQ et PQ, et le PLQ est toujours fort en ville.

La bagarre sera entre le PLQ et le PQ pour l'opposition officielle.

Ce sont mes prévisions.

[kenmore]

I will be surprised Elvis if the PQ regain much ground.. there is still alot of displeasure with the party and alot of fighting within.. the people of Quebec have moved well beyond the idea of separatism. And now that they are recognized as a nation by the government of canada, quebecers want to move on and focus on more important issues such as the economy, jobs and education.. the PQ must back away from old ideology and move into modern times

[Benoit]

fire_i fire_i:

In fact I question how in the world people can remain so poor at English after having between 2 and ~6 hours of English class every week, every year, from grade 4 to grade 11 (and since recently, from grade *one* to grade 11) : either I underestimate the difficulty some people can have at learning a language, either there are way more unbearably lazy people than I once thought, either there's a problem with the English program that's elsewhere than in the time spent teaching it.

People remain similarly poor in French, in maths, etc. Everything the school is touching becomes tarnished.

In Deschooling Society (Harrow Books, 1972), Ivan Illich argued that schools are consumers' factories:

Learning is the human activity which least needs manipulation by others. (p.56)

School is not only the New World Religion. It is also the world's fastest-growing labor market. (p.66)

The alternative to school would be a network which gave each man the same opportunity to share his current concern. (p.28 )

Schools pervert the natural inclination to grow and to learn. (p.87)

Schools are socially addictive. Social addiction, or escalation, consists in the tendency to prescribe increased treatment if smaller quantities have not yielded the desired results. (p.80)

School is a system of regressive taxation: the value of a man's schooling is a fonction of the number of years he has completed and of the costliness of the schools he has attended. (p.88 )

It must not start with the question, “What should someone learn?” but with the question, "What kinds of things and people might learners want to be in contact with in order to learn?" (p.111)

A good educational system should have three purposes; it should provide all who want to learn with access to available resources at any time in their lives; empower all who want to share what they know to find those who want to learn it from them; and, finally, furnish all who want to present an issue to the public with the opportunity to make their challenge known. (p.108)

It is difficult to abandon the idea that we have an obligation to the young, especially to the poor, an obligation to process them, whether by love or by fear, into a society which needs disciplined specialization as much from its producers as from its consumers. (p.97)

[kenmore]

ok folks.. my cousins in beauce told me last night that the english in the school..(catholic) is 30mins... what can one learn in 30mins

[Benoit]

kenmore kenmore:

ok folks.. my cousins in beauce told me last night that the english in the school..(catholic) is 30mins... what can one learn in 30mins

You can positively or negatively impinge on the curiosity of a young person in 30 minutes.

[fire_i]

30 minutes daily would be 2.5 hours a week, which is within the margin I gave out earlier. I'd have to ask two things : first, in which grade are your cousins? Second, you say a catholic school... so it's a private school, right? If so it's not impossible the school doesn't even respect the minimums imposed by the ministry : of course that theoretically doesn't happen, but in practice it's not uncommon.

Benoit : Deschooling Society Sounds like an interesting read, I should get my hands on it one day or the other. On the other hand it was written 36 years ago, which I admit makes me see it as somewhat less interesting...

MacDonaill/Elvis/kenmore :

About the PQ/PLQ/ADQ... it seems to me the ADQ has missed the train so far. I absolutely don't like them, that's pretty much an evidence, but I thought they'd be like fishes in the sea as official opposition. I thought it would be just their ground, but they're not doing well at all. The PQ has fairly overtaken the place as official opposition and manages to get its voice heard more than the ADQ - I see three reasons to that. First, and that shouldn't be a surprise, inexperience : it's normal, and the ADQ will get over it eventually for sure. Second, and from here and on things are getting harder to fix, lack of sympathy from the media. The Quebec media are overwhelmingly left-wing, so the ADQ is generally disliked by journalists, making it hard for them to get their message across at times. Third and most important : the ADQ proposes next to nothing. They point out flaws, then stop at that. That was fine in the days they had 4 deputies, but now it's just not enough! Heck, it can even be argued that their lack of content is the actual reason why they apparently get less media exposure than the theoretically less important PQ.

The good news for them is that they hold power over their own destiny. They can keep the govt in power as long as they know they can't win (of course, the day they'll get a shot, they'll have to hope the PQ does, too, else the PQ is likely to just push the elections further). It's time for them to show Quebec they're a serious party. They've already shown they can be close to people's opinions (personally I say they swimmed and thrived in demagogy, but that's just my opinion, and it seems most of Quebec disagrees, so whatev) - now they have to prove they can actually implement reforms and fix the problems they so adamantly decry.

And they'll have to work for that. Up to now the PQ is really just pushing them around and stealing the spotlight - works really well for them, as they managed to have some of the ADQ converts return home (at least, so the polls seem to indicate). Had the PLQ not managed to correct its mistakes and be an overall much better govt in its second mandate, chances are the PQ would have a massive lead in the polls right now - but that's just a 'what if', so we can disregard that.

I personally don't see the ADQ winning the next elections - at least, not the ADQ as we know it. The party promises lots but is unlikely to be able to deliver : they have the choice between appealing to the people by closely following their opinions or actually proposing more feasible things (since, as we should know, the basic voter is still an idiot who wants less taxes and more services, something strictly impossible) - essentially, taking a shift towards the center and promising less to gain credibility or staying where they are and risk never getting anywhere unless absolutely every other party sucks beyond reasonability and only having a chance at winning by sucking away the votes of disatisfied voters.

[kenmore]

yes they go to a private school.. in any case I firmly believe that it is important for we who live in north america to learn french and english as a base.. french first if you live in Quebec and then english.. I am currently learning Spanish.. and I want to tackle manderin... mon dieu

[Benoit]

kenmore kenmore:

yes they go to a private school.. in any case I firmly believe that it is important for we who live in north america to learn french and english as a base.. french first if you live in Quebec and then english.. I am currently learning Spanish.. and I want to tackle manderin... mon dieu

French, English, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian and German are too close to be separated.

[kenmore]

what ever benoit.. I have trouble with spanish and italian.. . anyway read this in the national post.. There is widespread recognition that Quebec's public schools have done a poor job teaching English. In the 2006 census, just 36% of Quebec francophones knew both official languages, while 69% of Quebec anglophones and 50% of allophones -- those with a mother tongue other than French or English -- declared themselves bilingual. (Among anglophones outside Quebec, only 7% were bilingual.) Marc Chevrier, a professor of political science at Universite du Quebec a Montreal, says there remains a mental block among Quebec francophones when it comes to English. Bill 101 has prompted the province's anglophone and allophone students to learn French, leaving their unilingual francophone counterparts at a disadvantage.

[Benoit]

kenmore kenmore:

what ever benoit.. I have trouble with spanish and italian.. . anyway read this in the national post.. There is widespread recognition that Quebec's public schools have done a poor job teaching English. In the 2006 census, just 36% of Quebec francophones knew both official languages, while 69% of Quebec anglophones and 50% of allophones -- those with a mother tongue other than French or English -- declared themselves bilingual. (Among anglophones outside Quebec, only 7% were bilingual.) Marc Chevrier, a professor of political science at Universite du Quebec a Montreal, says there remains a mental block among Quebec francophones when it comes to English. Bill 101 has prompted the province's anglophone and allophone students to learn French, leaving their unilingual francophone counterparts at a disadvantage.

If schools cannot overcome this mental block first, they should not teach English.

[fire_i]

Teaching English is an integral part of getting over that "block".

[Benoit]

fire_i fire_i:

Teaching English is an integral part of getting over that "block".

We have to tackle the block directly unless we have evidences that an indirect tackle would be more efficient.

[fire_i]

And what is more direct than making people learn the language?

[Benoit]

fire_i fire_i:

And what is more direct than making people learn the language?

Learning History.