[novachick]

Benoit Benoit:

novachick novachick:

I don't care if it costs 18 million or billion. If it means in the end Canadian heritage is preserved and valued.

And why is preserving and valuing our heritage is so important that we forget about pecuniary matters?

Because the preservation and value of heritage for future generations is priceless or should be. Imagine if funding did not go into the preservation of old Quebec. That as it aged and withered, copper roofs not restored, crumbing walls not repaired. It withered and died, torn down , replaced by condos and parking lots. What a loss to Canada and the world that would be EH!

[Yogi]

[quote="novachick

I don't care if it costs 18 million or billion. If it means in the end Canadian heritage is preserved and valued.[/quote]



I really don't see the need for 'language laws'. If the masses wanted the signs to be in French only or predominantly French, then a law wouldn't be necessary.Let those who want to preserve the language- or any tradition for that matter-do so at their own expense! Why force it on people who don't want it? English IS the predominant language of the business world.
If I put up the necessary funding to open a business, then I should be allowed to advertise in any language I want to. Depending on my 'target market' common sense tells me that I would be well advised to make the language of that market predominant on my signage. If I were to open up an 'India Bazaar' in hopes of catering to the wants and needs of that sector of the populace, wouldn't it make sense to advertise primarily in Punjabi? Or if I were to open up a restuarant with the aim of targeting the Japanese populace wouldn't it follow that most of my advertising would be in the Japanese language? Based upon the success, or failure of business, that would tell me how best to spend my advertising dollars.If, in either case, I didn't get enough trade from my 'target market' I would be well advised to look at another market ie; English, or French perhaps, and advertise in that language.
Now, I am not anti-French, I count in my heritage, Hon. Justice Julien Chouinard of the Supreme Court, and Olympic Skater Jose'e Choinard. I just don't think ANY language should be forced upon anyone, anywhere, and public funds should not be utilized to do so!

[Benoit]

novachick novachick:

Benoit Benoit:

novachick novachick:

I don't care if it costs 18 million or billion. If it means in the end Canadian heritage is preserved and valued.

And why is preserving and valuing our heritage is so important that we forget about pecuniary matters?

Because the preservation and value of heritage for future generations is priceless or should be. Imagine if funding did not go into the preservation of old Quebec. That as it aged and withered, copper roofs not restored, crumbing walls not repaired. It withered and died, torn down , replaced by condos and parking lots. What a loss to Canada and the world that would be EH!

EH is not an answer.

[novachick]

Yogi Yogi:

novachick

I don't care if it costs 18 million or billion. If it means in the end Canadian heritage is preserved and valued.

[quote="Yogi novachick

I don't care if it costs 18 million or billion. If it means in the end Canadian heritage is preserved and valued.

[quote="Yogi:

[novachick]

Benoit Benoit:

novachick novachick:

Benoit Benoit:

novachick novachick:

I don't care if it costs 18 million or billion. If it means in the end Canadian heritage is preserved and valued.

And why is preserving and valuing our heritage is so important that we forget about pecuniary matters?

Because the preservation and value of heritage for future generations is priceless or should be. Imagine if funding did not go into the preservation of old Quebec. That as it aged and withered, copper roofs not restored, crumbing walls not repaired. It withered and died, torn down , replaced by condos and parking lots. What a loss to Canada and the world that would be EH!

EH is not an answer.

K how about tabarnack that work for you

[fire_i]

Benoit : I'll tell you why. Because heritage is more important than money. A people that puts money above its own culture has sold its soul to the almighty dollar.

$1:

I really don't see the need for 'language laws'. If the masses wanted the signs to be in French only or predominantly French, then a law wouldn't be necessary.Let those who want to preserve the language- or any tradition for that matter-do so at their own expense! Why force it on people who don't want it? English IS the predominant language of the business world.

That's good and all, but the thing is that, well, the masses DO want the sings to be predominantly in French most of the time. I'd dare say that three quarters of the time, when services and information in a store are given in English only, said store still has a very significant French-speaking market... and despite this service in French is not given. Don't ask me why, can be many reasons : the owners feel they'd lose more cash than they'd gain by making the store 'bilingual', maybe they expect the clients to adapt (which is dumb but I've seen it once or twice in my 3-4 visits to Montreal), etc. Sure, in cases like these, owners will more often than not realize it's best for everyone to offer services in French. But sometimes they don't, and then you're left wondering why exactly that is, and it's more insulting than anything. In cases like that I don't mind if they're forced to put stuff in French. Does suck for the few stores that indeed don't have a significant french-speaking buyer base, but in Quebec you don't see that often, even in the middle of Westmount.

And while English is the predominant language of the business world, in Quebec it is on par with French - just like in Germany, it would be on par with German. And when it comes to the consumers and how to address them, you're no longer in the same sphere and there, French dominates, just as it should.

Also keep in mind another thing : in the years when Bill 101 was adopted, French was being crushed. Only from the 60's and on did French start gaining the ground it should have had all along : think of, for example, Montreal. Nowadays the island of Montreal itself contains about half francophones, and signs are supposed to always contain French (let's assume it's always the case, for the sake of simplicity). Well, in the 50's, nearly three quarters of the island was French-speaking, and less than one in ten signs was written in French... now tell me that was just due to the stores aiming an English-speaking market. Does not compute. Nearly everyone wanted French signs, but there weren't any despite the overwhelmingly evident size of the consumer base... in these days that's simply how it worked. Business was English-dominated and it occured to no one that buyers aren't the ones supposed to adapt - simply wasn't how things worked back then.

It's in this context Quebec adopted its first language laws. Things started improving and we kept on going with stronger laws - like Bill 101. Without these, chances are everything in Quebec would still be written in English - which makes no fucking sense, but was how things worked. So these laws were more than perfectly justified back then and still probably prevent an illogical decay of French. They're not perfect, but damn are they worth it.

EDIT : Woo, 666th post. Maybe Bill 101 IS evil after all.

[Benoit]

fire_i fire_i:

Benoit : I'll tell you why. Because heritage is more important than money. A people that puts money above its own culture has sold its soul to the almighty dollar.

sold its soul : what does this expression means? Is it related somehow to self-respect?

[fire_i]

Yes, exactly. Claiming spending money to protect your heritage is wasting money is essentially saying that the past of a culture is worthless. Sure we'd like to spend more on, say, healthcare or the debt, but if that means allowing your own culture to slowly dwindle and decay until the differences with the surrounding "dominant culture" (in Quebec's case that would be the north-american anglo-saxon culture) are leveled and people start forgetting their own identity, then I prefer waiting 6 months to get a hip replacement and spending 10% of the budget each year for the debt's interests.

That's saying a lot I know, but that's what I think and I won't derogate from that belief any time soon.

[novachick]

fire_i fire_i:

Yes, exactly. Claiming spending money to protect your heritage is wasting money is essentially saying that the past of a culture is worthless. Sure we'd like to spend more on, say, healthcare or the debt, but if that means allowing your own culture to slowly dwindle and decay until the differences with the surrounding "dominant culture" (in Quebec's case that would be the north-american anglo-saxon culture) are leveled and people start forgetting their own identity, then I prefer waiting 6 months to get a hip replacement and spending 10% of the budget each year for the debt's interests.

That's saying a lot I know, but that's what I think and I won't derogate from that belief any time soon.

Well said Fire

[Pimpbrewski]

About the McKibbin's Irish Pub issue. I figured that it would be best if I transferred it to this thread. Irish Pub and the OQLF

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

According to the news most Quebecers think it's silly too. It's only a fringe minority of hard core Quebecois SA that have an issue with it.

Shep has it right.

As for that Quebec flag that was posted, I am a Quebecer (Un Quebecois de souche calisse ), and was not offended. People should learn not to take everything so literally and should lighten up a little.

The separatitists are the ones making an uproar out of these kinds of matter. With their propaganda and all, and the media on their side, no surprise this has blown up out of proportion.

The French QC media has a preference to exaggerate facts so it sounds as controversial as possible. They love this type of coverage, sort of like Agenda Setting Theory. Often, they specify only a portion of details to fit their own theories. In that process, omitting important facts that could be relevant, therefore altering the whole aspect of the particular story at hand.

Societe St-Jean Baptiste and Office de la langue Francaise along with the PQ extremists should chill out a bit.

There is plenty of English spoken throughout the Province, mostly in Montreal. Some in Quebec City too. Voice of English Speaking Québec

Anyhow, OQLF is admitting that it may have been a little too pushy and that they will probably back off this whole ridiculous issue.

So it would be nice for people not to generalize too much. Sure, Pauline Marois and her gang can kiss my white ass. But there are lots of good things in Quebec. Often, people associate QC with separatists and do not include that there are Federalists in this province too. Quebec is a part of Canada and it shall remain. It goes both ways, QC is too valuable with its natural resources, and so it is in Canada's best interest to keep Quebec. At the same time, Quebec needs Canada in order to keep its economic stature. Overall, Quebec is a nice province.

[Benoit]

novachick novachick:

fire_i fire_i:

Yes, exactly. Claiming spending money to protect your heritage is wasting money is essentially saying that the past of a culture is worthless. Sure we'd like to spend more on, say, healthcare or the debt, but if that means allowing your own culture to slowly dwindle and decay until the differences with the surrounding "dominant culture" (in Quebec's case that would be the north-american anglo-saxon culture) are leveled and people start forgetting their own identity, then I prefer waiting 6 months to get a hip replacement and spending 10% of the budget each year for the debt's interests.

That's saying a lot I know, but that's what I think and I won't derogate from that belief any time soon.

Well said Fire

A self allows you to stay the same through time. Yes, a young person develops a sense of selfhood by respecting his ancestors. So before spending too much on the physical aspects of your culture, ask to your (grant) grant parents how crippling a broken hip can be.

[Yogi]

fire_i fire_i:

Yes, exactly. Claiming spending money to protect your heritage is wasting money is essentially saying that the past of a culture is worthless. Sure we'd like to spend more on, say, healthcare or the debt, but if that means allowing your own culture to slowly dwindle and decay until the differences with the surrounding "dominant culture" (in Quebec's case that would be the north-american anglo-saxon culture) are leveled and people start forgetting their own identity, then I prefer waiting 6 months to get a hip replacement and spending 10% of the budget each year for the debt's interests.

That's saying a lot I know, but that's what I think and I won't derogate from that belief any time soon.

Spending money to protect your heritage IS NOT a waste of money, But people need to get their priorities straight!

"Sorry Mes ami(e)s, but the money required to get that heart operation that would likely save YOUR life has been allocated for our legal fight over our sign laws. By the way, if you should run into my Grandpa 'up there' would ya say hello for me"?

Public funds SHOULD be used for issues affecting the life, health,safety, and liberty of the people. ALL the rest is 'luxury and fluff' and as such should be paid for by those who want to maintain. Let the user pay.

Heritage buildings; What is the function of these buildings? Certainly they require upkeep. And they should get it. But if the building is used only by private groups, ie; a catholic church, then let those users pay. Why should someone who has no interest in such pay for it in any way? Parliament buildings are a 'public' building, no admission is charged to attend functions which are open to the public, hence public funds should be spent on the upkeep. Should a private function be held there then private funds should go towards upkeep. Again it comes back to 'the user pays'.

You want the 'French language and traditions' to survive, then it is up to you to teach your off-spring and promote it.Don't come to me with your hand out looking for money to send your kids to a 'French only' school. If it is important enough to enough people, then they will reach into their own pockets to fund it! Should your tax dollars or mine be going towards the recently approve 'Blacks only' school? Shouldn't the user pay?
The French culture, like any other will survive and possibly even flourish if there is enough INTEREST from enough people. Where the French and every other culture runs into resistance is by trying to take away peoples choice and foisting their own values and beliefs upon others and to add insult to injury, expecting them to pay for something that they don't want!

[Knoss]

$1:

The french have pretty well taken over the arctic,they dont take the time to learn Inuktitut,french is allmost all you hear north of Churchill.Mon ami my ass.

Quebecers have a right to protect their traditional culture in parts of the province were a French person never set foot.

[kenmore]

good post novachick... merci.

[Yogi]

[quote="kenmore"

'Be who you are, and say what you feel,because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind'!

As long as you don't say it in English in Quebec!