[sasquatch2]

The thing everyone is pussy-footing around is the simple fact that what is style magic is what once was pagan religion---which was replaced in modern times by a new magics. That's right, rreligion is actually a belief in magic.

There I said it. Now don't you feel better?

[Aurora_Janus]

-

[romanP]

We create things from our dreams all the time. That's how the modern world exists. The rate at which our technology evolves has a direct corelation to how fast we can realise our dreams. I think this is what magic is. I think karma and magic are directly related.

[Blue_Nose]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Blue_Nose Blue_Nose:

First you concede you ment "parallels" instead of "is"

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

some people's beliefs in certain things parallel a belief in magic. There, BN - that's what I've been trying to say here.

and now you're going to be so dishonest as to deny you've not been arguing that those beliefs are in fact magical:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

rational people attribute magical qualities to so many inanimate objects

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Amazing how many people say this and actually believe that guns, all on their own, kill people.

It must be magic.

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

could their irrational beliefs be quantified as a magical belief? I think so.

Piss off.

Whatever.

Whatever, indeed - it's not my fault that it took you three pages of discussion to discover the word "parallel" moreso suited the argument you failed to clearly present. That you blame my understanding for those shortcomings is disingenuous.

samsquanch samsquanch:

The thing everyone is pussy-footing around is the simple fact that what is style magic is what once was pagan religion---which was replaced in modern times by a new magics. That's right, rreligion is actually a belief in magic.

There I said it. Now don't you feel better?

Bart's intentions in this thread were clear from the start - he referenced this connection in one of his earlier posts.

The funny thing is that a lot of non-pagan religious people seriously believe in the power of pagan spells and curses and demons and all that nonsense. In that sense, their beliefs haven't been replaced at all.

[ShepherdsDog]

It's people's belief that gives the spells/curses their strength. It's all psychosomatic.

[sasquatch2]

Aurora_Janus

$1:

You can't just make something up and then believe it into existence. Not unless you're five years old or institutionalized.

Sure you can. And you can easily develop a vast, powerful following of fanatical believers.

Witness the CO2 AGW/GAI movement. complete with highpriests and Pope.

[Blue_Nose]

Aurora_Janus Aurora_Janus:

Notice that the need precedes the belief. He could as well have said "We thought we needed it, so we made it up."

I fail to see the significance - it's obvious that the need for something in our lives results in the pursuit of whatever it is. My eating lunch right now resulted from a need to eat

The notion that this is in fact a basic human need is simply false - I don't need to believe in the supernatural to find meaning in life, much less survive. I have plenty of goals, beliefs, values, and interests without a shred of belief in anything spiritual or magical, and I'm perfectly happy with that.

Aurora_Janus Aurora_Janus:

You can't just make something up and then believe it into existence. Not unless you're five years old or institutionalized.

You can make something up and believe it, but that doesn't make it exist outside your head.

[BartSimpson]

Blue_Nose Blue_Nose:

You can make something up and believe it, but that doesn't make it exist outside your head.

To believe in something, and not to live it, is dishonest.

If you live as you believe then you can make it so.

[Wada]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Blue_Nose Blue_Nose:

You can make something up and believe it, but that doesn't make it exist outside your head.

To believe in something, and not to live it, is dishonest.

If you live as you believe then you can make it so.

And there sir you have your magic. Well, some of it.

[BartSimpson]

Wada Wada:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Blue_Nose Blue_Nose:

You can make something up and believe it, but that doesn't make it exist outside your head.

To believe in something, and not to live it, is dishonest.

If you live as you believe then you can make it so.

And there sir you have your magic. Well, some of it.

[Mysterio10]

Interesting.

[Blue_Nose]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

To believe in something, and not to live it, is dishonest.

If you live as you believe then you can make it so.

Whether you "live it" or not is irrelevant.

If you believe you can move objects or bend spoons with your mind, you're lying to yourself, and "living it" won't change that.

If you're just talking about positive reinforcement and psychology, that's not magic, nor does it "quantify" as magic, nor does it "parallel" magic.

[BartSimpson]

Blue_Nose Blue_Nose:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

To believe in something, and not to live it, is dishonest.

If you live as you believe then you can make it so.

Whether you "live it" or not is irrelevant.

If you believe you can move objects or bend spoons with your mind, you're lying to yourself, and "living it" won't change that.

If you're just talking about positive reinforcement and psychology, that's not magic, nor does it "quantify" as magic, nor does it "parallel" magic.

Okay, yeah, you hate me. I got the memo. Thanks.

And this comment:

$1:

To believe in something, and not to live it, is dishonest.

Has nothing to do with magic.

[Blue_Nose]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Okay, yeah, you hate me. I got the memo. Thanks.

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

And this comment:

$1:

To believe in something, and not to live it, is dishonest.

Has nothing to do with magic.

Then why was it a response to my post on reality versus magic, in the thread about magic? Is this another "parallel" in disguise?

[BartSimpson]

Blue_Nose Blue_Nose:

$1:

To believe in something, and not to live it, is dishonest.

$1:

Has nothing to do with magic.

Then why was it a response to my post on reality versus magic, in the thread about magic? Is this another "parallel" in disguise?

You said:

$1:

You can make something up and believe it, but that doesn't make it exist outside your head.

Which does not specifically mention magic.

I responded with the quote from Mahatma Gandhi:

$1:

To believe in something, and not to live it, is dishonest.

And observed that if you live what you believe then you can make it real.

Canada, for instance, is little more than the collective beliefs of thirty million people. If they stop believing in it then it will cease to exist.

But they do believe in it and therefore it does exist and not just in their heads.

But, as I said before, you can't seem to get past your prejudices about the word "magic" to see anything else that's being discussed here.