[ridenrain]

You might have noticed on the news section that China is also trying to sell J10 fighters to Iran. They also have something like 60 different companies making cars for their internal markets. To support their industry and new lifestyle, their building a new coal plant every week.
You're suggestion that this is all the fault of the west is pure spin.

[saturn_656]

Amazing how much effort people will put into helping poor misunderstood countries like China pass the buck onto the evil bloodsucking westerners. Hey why don't we jump on this same bandwagon and pass the buck for our emissions to the US and wash our hands of the whole thing?

We can say "well its not OUR fault, its the evil Americans fault for buying our OIL!!!"

Think that excuse would fly here? I don't think so, and it isn't working for China either. They should take some god damn responsibility.

[Schleihauf]

I say we should blame the communists.

[ridenrain]

Here's another little problem that I always ponder.
The emissions of China, and the rest of the world are measured per capita. That definately works in China's favor because they have a few hundred million living at a slave level.
Where this becomes a problem is to assume the planet measures polution in a fair, per person manor. Of course it does not and the pollution from all 1.3 billon Chinese weighs just as heavy as the polution from 300 million Americans.
If we choose to measure as such, the Arab Emirates must be the most wastefull in the world because they supply most of the worlds oil yet have a small population.

Then again, their such a developing country:

[neopundit]

ridenrain ridenrain:

You might have noticed on the news section that China is also trying to sell J10 fighters to Iran.

Not sure I get your point. They shouldn't be allowed to do this?

[ridenrain]

Not exactly a consumer product that the evil west is forcing them to make, is it?

[neopundit]

When I first read hurley_108's post I started a reply along the lines of "We can blame China because it's their fucking pollution." Then I started to think about.

I'm not saying that we should take all the blame for China's pollution. I am saying that if it's us that care about solving the pollution problem, we should do something about it. And because their industry is reliant on our demand, we have that ability.

I think the ridiculous assumption is believing that China should give a rat's ass about their pollution at all. In that sense, we can't blame them for a "problem" they don't even consider a problem.

[neopundit]

ridenrain ridenrain:

Not exactly a consumer product that the evil west is forcing them to make, is it?

Ok, so not every product gets shipped to the west. Pretty sure everyone here knows that and nobody implied that. Are you going to argue that China doesn't ship most of their goods to the "West"? I thought not.

[ridenrain]

I'd be pleased if Canada did it's part by stopping all imports from China. Prices on many things would go up and we'd have to get clever or dirty when smelters and electroplating moves back but I'm always for keeping jobs here.
The trick here is that China needs to be seen as clean and green, or at least working on the problem, because the Olympics is comming up and they don't want to be embarassed in the world view.
They definately can't go green while their making all that crap because their industries and government are too corrupt to effect change. The new solution is to deflect blame and so many westerners are always eager for more guilt.

[ShepherdsDog]

$1:

At least it'd be honest. Blaming China for all the CO2 they produce masks the fact that they produce it to satisfy our demand for their stuff. They're exporting goods to us, we're exporting our slave labour and pollution.

You can go a step further in this blame game and say that China is producing all of this 'stuff' to raise capital to fund their own projects. You need lots of capital to buy off the populace and buy/research/produce all of that expensive new military equipment. We haven't shipped a slave market anywhere, it was already in existence, it just retooled itself for different products.

[Zipperfish]

ridenrain ridenrain:

I'd be pleased if Canada did it's part by stopping all imports from China. Prices on many things would go up and we'd have to get clever or dirty when smelters and electroplating moves back but I'm always for keeping jobs here.
The trick here is that China needs to be seen as clean and green, or at least working on the problem, because the Olympics is comming up and they don't want to be embarassed in the world view.
They definately can't go green while their making all that crap because their industries and government are too corrupt to effect change. The new solution is to deflect blame and so many westerners are always eager for more guilt.

Stop trade with China. That sounds like NDP-talk to me. Comrade. Given that we have a 17.5 billion trade deficit wiht CHina, that would have some pretty important reverbaerations on Canada's economy--like put WalMart Canada out of business along with most discount stores. Then there'd be the border hassle aboutstoping US imports originating from China from coming in.

I say if China wants to do business, let's do business. Capitalism works wonders for democarcy (didn't I hear that no countries wiht a McDonalds have ever gone to war). And the old saying goes: Where goods do not cross borders, soldiers will."

[sasquatch2]

neopundit

$1:

ridenrain wrote:

$1:

You might have noticed on the news section that China is also trying to sell J10 fighters to Iran.

Not sure I get your point. They shouldn't be allowed to do this?

This "little" matter inspired a wee bit of research. This J10 fighter is touted as proof of China's accendance technologically.....however some matter emerge.

The J10 is externally indestinguishable from the abandoned Isreali "Lavi" fighter---intended as an Isreali version of the F16.

Pakistan in a not so secret deal supplied a F16 to the PLAAF.

Exporting an advanced fighter to the ME (especially Iran or Syria) is destabilizing. Armegedin draws near.

Much is made of this new bird but intelligence indicates it retains the AOA problems which lead to the Isreali's abandonment of that programme.

Any hopeful notions by the lefties, of this becoming the world's most powerful fighter was dashed with the adoption production of the US Raptor----which the US has wisely refused to supply Japan.

Much to the displeasure of the anti-american lobby here the sun has not yet set upon the US informal empire. It retains the technological lead and the resources to produce the Raptor in quantity.....does it have the political will.

In the real world the PRC has painted itself into a corner. It possesses a nuclear arsonal but like all such is unable to deploy it without irrevockably having it destroyed in a nuclear exchange.

[ridenrain]

The biggest thing that dooms the J10 is that the Chinese are about a decade behind the west in fighter engines. Without a good engine to put in this, it's stuck as a dirtmover, not a fighter.

[ShepherdsDog]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

ridenrain ridenrain:

I'd be pleased if Canada did it's part by stopping all imports from China. Prices on many things would go up and we'd have to get clever or dirty when smelters and electroplating moves back but I'm always for keeping jobs here.
The trick here is that China needs to be seen as clean and green, or at least working on the problem, because the Olympics is comming up and they don't want to be embarassed in the world view.
They definately can't go green while their making all that crap because their industries and government are too corrupt to effect change. The new solution is to deflect blame and so many westerners are always eager for more guilt.

Stop trade with China. That sounds like NDP-talk to me. Comrade. Given that we have a 17.5 billion trade deficit wiht CHina, that would have some pretty important reverbaerations on Canada's economy--like put WalMart Canada out of business along with most discount stores. Then there'd be the border hassle aboutstoping US imports originating from China from coming in.

I say if China wants to do business, let's do business. Capitalism works wonders for democarcy (didn't I hear that no countries wiht a McDonalds have ever gone to war). And the old saying goes: Where goods do not cross borders, soldiers will."

Gee, I wasn't aware Canada had a border with China. If the Chinese tried invading the initial wave'd end up opening businesses and Richmond would become larger than the rest of the GVRD. It'd be nice to see Canad's manufacturing sector be able to take up some slack...especially for domestic consumption, but the wages paid to Canadian workers would be prohibitive to competion. However, there is all of Latin America to consider.

[Numure]

I never thought you we're against Free-Trade Ridenrain. You've become a Leftist?