[Explorer]

Do you have a Locked-in Pension (or RRSP)? If not, ignore this.
All of the Provinces as well as the Federal Government have their own Rules and Regulations concerning Locked-in RRSPs. Probably only you people that have one would know what I mean.
There are only two Provinces that allow you to unlock these RRSPs (Sask. being one). Manitoba allows you to unlock 50% (once). Ontario allows ex MPPs to unlock theirs, but nobody else. The Federal Government is the most restrictive. Since we are ALL Canadians we should ALL be treated the same. Isn't that what we have a Constitution for? The new Federal Finance Minister is an ex MPP from Ontario, so can unlock his. This should be standardized across the country. Banks and other institutions don't know what rules to follow. Hundreds in Ontario lost money recently in a scheme to extract money that was locked-in.
Are there any of you in this situation? Let's discuss how to change this.
Please Post or PM me.

[Explorer]

If you are in this situation and want to do something about it then you should join the Yahoo Group:

ca.groups.yahoo.com/group/Locked-in_RRSP

It doesn't matter which category you fall in let's see what we can do to improve it.

[Explorer]

This is from the Province that brought in Medicare and Auto Insurance.

Saskatchewan changes the rules

Saskatchewan is granting its retirees a little more freedom. The Department of Justice announced changes to the province's pension regulations in October that effectively remove current withdrawal limits on life income funds (LIF) and locked-in retirement income funds (LRIF).

"Anyone with a locked-in
retirement account will have
the option of moving monies to a
RRIF at retirement. Anyone who
already has a LIF or an LRIF
in Saskatchewan will have that money
in a RRIF immediately. "
David Wild,
superintendent of pensions,
Saskatchewan

"There'll be no restrictions on the amount of withdrawal that can come out," says David Wild, superintendent of pensions. "Anyone with a locked-in retirement account will have the option of moving monies to a RRIF [registered retirement income fund] at retirement. Anyone who already has a LIF or an LRIF in Saskatchewan will have that money in a RRIF immediately. So the LIF and LRIF will no longer exist."

According to Wild, retirees, financial planners and financial institutions had become "frustrated" with LIF and LRIF rules in the last four years. On a technical basis, he says, they couldn't plan ahead because maximum withdrawals from LIFs and LRIFs change according to market conditions. Also, many found the formulas for calculating maximums complicated. On a philosophical level, Wild says regulators "received complaints, such as 'I'm a responsible adult. Who is the government to tell me how much money I can withdraw from my own LIF or LRIF?'"

[Explorer]

There should be a Petition set up to the Federal Government and all the Provinces to gives ALL Canadians Equal Rights:

This one is Ontario only, but a good start.

"I have started a petition on line To Premier Dalton McGuinty asking to have locked in pensions unlocked. Any body that wishes to help and lives in Ontario Please go sign. Any body can sign that is over 18 and lives in Ontario.

Here is the site

http://www.PetitionOnline.com/WRC101/petition.html

Thanks Oldman "

[Explorer]

Maybe an Ombusdman can do the trick to give us Equal Rights across the country.

www.ombudsmanforum.ca/whatis_e.asp

What is an "Ombudsman"?

An ombudsman is an independent, objective investigator of people's complaints against government agencies and other organizations, both public and private sectors. After a fair, thorough review, the ombudsman decides if the complaint is justified and makes recommendations to the organization in order to resolve the problem.

The two most common kinds of ombudsman in Canada and in other countries are:

* Legislative (or classical) ombudsman who are established by statute and who can report findings and recommendations to ministers of the Crown, to the provincial legislature or to Parliament.
* Executive Ombudsman who report only to the head of the organization whom they investigate, such as government departments or Crown corporations, universities/colleges or businesses.
(questions@ombudsmanforum.ca)

***********************************
I like the look of the first one there, namely LEGISLATIVE Ombudsman, especially if they could go after ALL the Provinces and the Federal Governemnt to get the SAME Rules and Regulations set up across Canada.

Looking at that website that may come under Canadian Heritage
www.pch.gc.ca/index_e.cfm

which, as they say: "Canadian Heritage is responsible for NATIONAL POLICIES and programs that promote Canadian content, foster cultural participation, active citizenship and participation in Canada's civic life, and STRENGTHEN CONNECTIONS among Canadians."


Meanwhile: join our Group to discuss this further:
ca.groups.yahoo.com/group/Locked-in_RRSP

[Explorer]

Sometimes you just don't have a choice. If your Company folds, your pension (if there was one) is transfered to a locked-in RRSP (LIRA) and you are under the Regulations that that Company came under. It's the luck of the draw in some cases. And it shouldn't be.

The Federal Government makes all the rules for Regular RRSPs with few exceptions (and Maybe Quebec). They are frequently making changes. It started out that you were not allowed ANY Foreign investments in your RRSP, then they slowly increased it to 20% then up to 30% and now it can be 100%. Then they changed it to allow a temporary withdrawal to buy your first home. You weren't allowed to take any out at all and now you can withdraw it all.

Why can't the rules for Locked-in RRSPs be the same across the country like it is for Regular ones? People haven't withdrawn all their money from Regular RRSPs so they aren't likely to withdraw it all from a locked-in one, and so what if they did, it's their money. None of this existed 20, 30, or more years ago. It's time they fixed it. There are likely many baby boomers caught in this, also.

[Explorer]

Ok, so you leave your money in the Company Pension Funds and then this happens:

The trustees of one of Canada's biggest pension funds have been charged with mismanagement after Ontario's pension regulator alleged they invested more than $225 million of their workers' pension money in questionable Caribbean resorts.

The Financial Services Commission of Ontario said on Wednesday it has laid 15 charges against trustees of the Canadian Commercial Workers Industry Pension Plan, claiming they broke the conditions of the Ontario Pension Benefits Act with numerous major investments over a two-year period.

The people charged include senior executives of the major supermarket chains and senior officials of the United Food and Commercial Workers union, which represents 310,000 mainly supermarket employees.

The charges are regulatory, not criminal. Each carries a penalty of up to $100,000.

[Explorer]

To go along with the Petition to have Ontario Unlock their peoples Locked-in RRSPs:
www.PetitionOnline.com/WRC101/petition.html

There is now a Petition to the Federal Government to do the same:
www.petitiononline.com/Unlock06/petition.html

You may be in this situation now or perhaps will be in the future. It is up to You to protect Your rights. Sign the Petition(s).

[daTerminehtor]

Erhm, you're incorrect in one sense....

I withdrew my money from my locked in account and I live in Ontario.
You are able to should you meet one of five conditions.

And to quote you from another site...

$1:

Not most, but some do allow that. Ontario does, however if you lose your job and can't make the house payments they say NO, you have assets, a house. Even if you don't have the money to fix it up to sell it.

Further, those exceptions were posted for you, why not post those here as well?

$1:

Shortened life expectancy pay out

The LIF owner must complete an application to a Financial Institution to Withdraw Money From an Ontario LIRA, LIF or LRIF. The Physician's Statement section of the form must be completed by a physician or a separate written certificate must be provided, signed by the physician. It must state that the physician is licensed to practice medicine in Canada and that the LIF owner has an illness or physical disability that is likely to shorten his/her life expectancy to less than two years. If a spouse exists, a spousal waiver is also required.

Financial hardship pay out

The LIF owner must apply directly to the Financial Services Commission of Ontario (FSCO) using the appropriate one of the two following forms: - Application to the Superintendent Of Financial Services For Consent to Withdraw Money from an Ontario LIRA, LIF, or LRIF Based on Financial Hardship - Application to the Superintendent Of Financial Services For Consent to Withdraw Money from an Ontario LIRA, LIF, or LRIF Based on Low Income Financial Hardship. To qualify for this withdrawal, the LIF owner’s expected total income from all sources before taxes, for the twelve-month period following the date the application is signed, must be less than two-thirds of the Year’s Maximum Pensionable Earnings (YMPE) for the year (two-thirds of $42100 as of 2006). In addition, one who has previously redeemed locked-in funds due to low income is not eligible for further withdrawals of this nature for a twelve-month period following the date the last successful application was signed. A fee of 2% of the requested withdrawal amount is imposed by the FSCO for each separate successful application, with a minimum fee of $200 and a maximum of $600.

Marriage / relationship breakdown transfer

Up to 50% of the fund value may be transferred to a locked-in account for the former spouse or same-sex partner. A court order or domestic contract along with the completed Form T2220 - Transfer from an RRSP or a RRIF to another RRSP or RRIF on Breakdown of Marriage or Common-law Partnership is required to support the transfer.


Survivor's benefit transfer

Fund value may be transferred to the surviving spouse or same-sex partner - locking-in not required. If there is no surviving spouse or same-sex partner, funds are paid out in a lump sum to the designated beneficiary or estate. A spouse living separate and apart from the LIF owner at date of death is not entitled to receive the value of the property in the LIF.


Small balance pay out

For a LIF owner age 55 or older, whose total value of all locked-in monies regulated by the Ontario Pension Benefits Act, is less than 40% of the YMPE in effect for the year of application (presently $42100 x .4 = $16840), the funds can be paid out or transferred to a RRIF or RRSP. The LIF owner must complete an application to a Financial Institution to Withdraw Money From a LIRA, LIF or LRIF. The consent section must also be completed if the LIF owner attests that his/her spouse or same-sex partner consents to the withdrawal of funds.

So then, what is it exactly you're advocating here?

[Explorer]

Boy, am I glad you asked that question. What am I advocating? I am advocating equal rights for All Canadians. I am really happy for you that you could withdraw your money in Ontario. Why can't I do the same? It is because I am NOT covered by Ontario Rules and Regulations.

If you join the Armed Forces in Manitoba it doesn't mean you are covered by Manitoba Laws (allowing you to move 50% of your locked-in pension to a Regular one), it's Federal laws meaning you can't touch it.

If you join Air Canada in Saskatchewan it doesn't mean you can withdraw 100% of your Pension, as you are under Federal Laws and you can not touch it.

I am covered by Federal Rules. Am I still a Canadian, or more so, since it is Federal? There are hundreds of people living in Ontario (as well as other Provinces) that can't touch their money (that's why I support their Petition, also).

Since I am not covered by Ontario I didn't go into much details, although I am aware of them.

What if Ontario said you could NOT withdraw yours and nobody cared?

[Explorer]

daTerminehtor daTerminehtor:

Erhm, you're incorrect in one sense....

I withdrew my money from my locked in account and I live in Ontario.
You are able to should you meet one of five conditions.

And to quote you from another site...

$1:

Not most, but some do allow that. Ontario does, however if you lose your job and can't make the house payments they say NO, you have assets, a house. Even if you don't have the money to fix it up to sell it.

Further, those exceptions were posted for you, why not post those here as well?

$1:

Shortened life expectancy pay out

The LIF owner must complete an application to a Financial Institution to Withdraw Money From an Ontario LIRA, LIF or LRIF. The Physician's Statement section of the form must be completed by a physician or a separate written certificate must be provided, signed by the physician. It must state that the physician is licensed to practice medicine in Canada and that the LIF owner has an illness or physical disability that is likely to shorten his/her life expectancy to less than two years. If a spouse exists, a spousal waiver is also required.

Financial hardship pay out

The LIF owner must apply directly to the Financial Services Commission of Ontario (FSCO) using the appropriate one of the two following forms: - Application to the Superintendent Of Financial Services For Consent to Withdraw Money from an Ontario LIRA, LIF, or LRIF Based on Financial Hardship - Application to the Superintendent Of Financial Services For Consent to Withdraw Money from an Ontario LIRA, LIF, or LRIF Based on Low Income Financial Hardship. To qualify for this withdrawal, the LIF owner’s expected total income from all sources before taxes, for the twelve-month period following the date the application is signed, must be less than two-thirds of the Year’s Maximum Pensionable Earnings (YMPE) for the year (two-thirds of $42100 as of 2006). In addition, one who has previously redeemed locked-in funds due to low income is not eligible for further withdrawals of this nature for a twelve-month period following the date the last successful application was signed. A fee of 2% of the requested withdrawal amount is imposed by the FSCO for each separate successful application, with a minimum fee of $200 and a maximum of $600.

Marriage / relationship breakdown transfer

Up to 50% of the fund value may be transferred to a locked-in account for the former spouse or same-sex partner. A court order or domestic contract along with the completed Form T2220 - Transfer from an RRSP or a RRIF to another RRSP or RRIF on Breakdown of Marriage or Common-law Partnership is required to support the transfer.


Survivor's benefit transfer

Fund value may be transferred to the surviving spouse or same-sex partner - locking-in not required. If there is no surviving spouse or same-sex partner, funds are paid out in a lump sum to the designated beneficiary or estate. A spouse living separate and apart from the LIF owner at date of death is not entitled to receive the value of the property in the LIF.


Small balance pay out

For a LIF owner age 55 or older, whose total value of all locked-in monies regulated by the Ontario Pension Benefits Act, is less than 40% of the YMPE in effect for the year of application (presently $42100 x .4 = $16840), the funds can be paid out or transferred to a RRIF or RRSP. The LIF owner must complete an application to a Financial Institution to Withdraw Money From a LIRA, LIF or LRIF. The consent section must also be completed if the LIF owner attests that his/her spouse or same-sex partner consents to the withdrawal of funds.

So then, what is it exactly you're advocating here?

Bill 27 was passed in Ontario in Dec., 1999 which allowed the above. At the same time, Bill 27 allowed ex MPPs of Ontario to UNLOCK ALL of their Locked-in RRSPs.

Here is something I found posted elsewhere:
************************************

In your posting you have included a quote from Greg Sorbara.

“While Ministry staff continue to monitor developments ….,this government is not considering amendments to the Ontario provisions ….”

All seniors, who are unfortunately saddled with a Locked-In pension owe it to themselves to read the Ontario Legislature Hansard record as it relates to Bill 27. (Bill 27 received Royal Assent on Dec. 20, 1999)

Please follow these prompts and verify for yourselves what I am about to say.

www.ontla.on.ca/hansard … then go to … 37th Parliament,1st Session,Oct. 20,1999 to Dec. 20,1999 … click on House Debates …then click on L027B-Mon. 13 Dec. 1999

Bill 27, An Act to Amend the Pension Benefits Act and the MPP’s Pension Act was a bill very cleverly crafted by the Conservative government of the day. Ms Caroline Di Cocco (Sarnia-Lambton) stated regarding this bill … “So here we have a bill that’s dealing with two different directions that are in contradiction to one another.”

Amendments to the Pension Benefits Act were paraded before unsuspecting seniors in Ontario as some noble gesture of empathy in allowing miniscule opportunities to access monies within a Locked-In plan.

These same amendments though, also acted as a smoke screen to cover the real intent of Bill 27 which was to allow 61 MPP’s (of all party affiliations) the privlege of moving ALL their pension monies from a Locked-In status to an RRSP status. This was accomplished through amendments to the MPP’s Pension Act.

In other words, knowing how loathsome and restrictive Locked-In plans were, 61 MPP’s simply were given a legal avenue of escape from the very same noble gesture of empathy they were promoting, (through the amendments to the Pension Benefits Act), for all other Ontarians holding Locked-In plans."

[lakeside]

Hi:

The Terminehtor wrote (Quote)
"Erhm, you're incorrect in one sense....

I withdrew my money from my locked in account and I live in Ontario.
You are able to should you meet one of five conditions"

Yes You can draw money out under financle hardship if You earn under $28,000. a year . You first have to sell Your Accets such as cottage or busness Etc,

If you are in a little pinch and could use a little extra money out of your fund . TOO BAD! You may have sufficent funds in there to do this without harming your retirement. TOO BAD!
The Goverement of Ontario or The Federal Goverement or some of the other Provincial Goverements Hold The purse strings.

The Goverment of Ontario allowed themselves Full acess to these funds..

The Goverment of Sascatchewan allowes all of their people full acess to these funds.

The Manitoba Goverment allows their people 50% acess to these funds And are also being loybed in parlement to unlock the remaining 50%.

Why is it that the rest of us do not have full acess.

WE ARE ALL Canadians and should be treated equiel .

Take Care Bill C

[lakeside]

Hi Here is a quote I have taken from another forum that Suffering Senior posted.

"If you are one of the unfortunate seniors in Ontario, saddled with some or all your pension monies within a Locked-In plan, I believe you owe to yourself to read the Ontario Legislature Hansard record as it relates to Bill 27. It will sustantiate the information on the previous posts.

Bill 27, An Act to Amend the Pension Benefits Act and the MPP's Pension Act was very cleverly crafted. The real intent of Bill 27 though was to push through the amendments to the MPP's Pension Act, and not the miniscule changes, through amendments to the Pension Benefits Act, that were being offered to those seniors holding Locked-In plans.

61 MPP's (of all party affiliations) were given the legal opportunity, via Bill 27, to move ALL their pension monies from a Locked-In status to an RRSP status. IF THE AMENDMENTS OFFERED TO ONTARIANS, ALSO HOLDING LOCKED-IN PLANS (through the amendments to the Pension Benefits Act), WERE SO NOBLE A GESTURE, WHY WERE 61 MPP"S GIVEN THIS SPECIAL OPPORTUNITY TO ESCAPE THE VERY AMENDMENTS BEING OFFERED TO ALL OTHER SENIORS?

The answer ... MPP's knew full well how loathsome and restrictive Locked-In plans were and they wanted no part of it.

Follow the prompts below to access the Hansard record and read about this disgusting, behind-the-scenes, manipulation of the law-making process where MPP's took very good care of themselves.

Read the comments of Michael Bryant (St. Paul's), your present-day Attorney-General, ... and then ask yourself ... if he considered Bill 27 so repugnant in 1999, why has he been so silent since the Liberals assumed power in 2003?

Read the comments of Sean Conway (Renfrew-Nipissing-Pembroke) ... take note of his reference to the article in the Ottawa Citizen, December 10th, 1999 edition, as it relates to last minute changes and former Finance Minister,Mr. Eves. Take note of Mr. Conway's question to the House on how MPP's, himself included, would face constituents and then have to explain how they gave opportunity to their own but were not going to give the same to seniors in their own ridings.

Read the comments of Michael Brown (Algoma-Manitoulin) ... two classes of society within the same pension scheme.

Read the comments of Caroline Di Cocco (Sarnia-Lambton) ... "So here we have a bill that's dealing with two different directions that are in contradiciton to one another."

www.ontla.on.ca/hansard

then go to ... 37th Parliament, 1st Session, Oct. 20, 1999 to Dec. 20, 1999

click on ... House Debates

then click on ... L027B - Mon. 13 Dec. 1999

I hope this makes your blood boil ... as much as it does mine!!!
Sign the petition ... yes ... but even more importantly, write your MPP ... and/or go see him or her in person and express your disgust.

Also check their voting record on Bill 27. It is on the website.

In my case, my MPP, during a visit to his office, explained that he did not agree at all with the concept of Locked-In pensions. After listening to all his flowery words of empathy for seniors ... I replied ...I checked your voting record and you voted FOR Bill 27 ... how do you explain your opposing positions on the same issue? ... HE COULDN'T ... AGAIN, YOU CAN'T SUCK AND BLOW AT THE SAME TIME

He is not an MPP I'll be voting for in the next election.

Seniors ... please take some to consider the above ... we are not stupid people who need to have our own money rationed back to us, ... we are just as capable as any MPP of managing our own pension monies.

Thanks,
Suffering Senior "

[lakeside]

Hi Suffering Senior.

Yes we are all suffering from this unjust legislation And I really hope that everybody takes the time to read those reports.

On another issue an MPP has stepped forward and offered her assistance to help resolve this issue with a private members bill.

I now wonder when this bill is presented will the MPP,S of Ontario Finely allow the People of Ontario the same privileges as they allowed themselves.

If not I hope that every person that thinks that the pensions in Ontario should be unlocked for everybody and not just for the MPP,S will vote for the party that will change this unjust legislation.

Take care Bill C

I am also adding a post that i posted in another forum.

I see MPP Andrea Horwarth has signed the petition and is going to present a private members bill to change the legislation so that locked in pensions can be unlocked in Ontario.

People can still sign the petition as I will be sending it in a few more times before the next election . If the private members bill gets enough votes though . I wont have too.

I would like to stress again . Most employer Have locked in pensions . Federal or Provincial . If You have a pension at Your work place it is more than likely locked in. There will be a time that You will retire and if this legislation isn't changed . You may be going to your financial institution because you could use a little bit extra out of your pension. Your pension may be making more money then you are taking out. The Answer will be sorry there is a set amount controlled by the Government and there is nothing that You can do about it.

Take the time to sign this petition even if You don't have a pension at work.
Eventually you may work at a place that has one. We have to get this changed

http://www.PetitionOnline.com/WRC101/petition.html

While You are signing the Provincial one please take the time to sign the Federal one . We are all in the same boat . We need to change this in all provinces and federal . Not just a few.

http://www.petitiononline.com/Unlock06/petition.html



This is quoted from the petition

" MPP Andrea Horwath As the MPP for Hamilton East and the NDP Caucus Critic for Pensions, I am working on a private member's bill to achieve this here in Ontario

Thank You Bill C.
quote / posted 16 July 2006 9:38 AM

[Explorer]

Yesterday newspapers/TV only published what THEY thought was news

Yesterday Politicians thought they could do what they want and nobody would know.

Yesterday there was no internet.

Today there is and we can publish what WE think is important. And the World will know.

It is time to correct this nonsense and let ALL holders of Locked-in RRSPs have the ability to handle their own money.

Bill 27 in Ontario unlocked ALL MPPs Locked-in RRSPs (they had just given themselves 800,000 to $1,000,000) and gave PEANUTS to the rest of the Province.

Today, the Honorable Federal Finance Minister (an ex MPP from Ontario) is becoming aware that it is time HE did the HONORABLE thing and unlock ALL Locked-in RRSPs, don't you think?

Sign the Petitions........