[Fu22y_Lojik]

$1:

...but what pains me more is to hear Canadians having second thoughts about why he died. For this makes his death for naught.


For the average Canadian to have even a first thought about why a soldier died is progress. Canadians being free to discuss and debate isn't nor should it be a source of pain.

I agree whole heartedly, I am merely pointing out my opinion of those opposed to the war and declaring that his death was a waste. This does pain a soldier. That being said the irony is that this is precisely the asthetic we fight for. The right to differing views and debate.

But given that this debate cannot exist without the validity of the effrots in Afghanistan being cast into doubt, the 2 arguments in my opinion must become homogenous. And without a doubt your best point SprCForr is that the Canadian public needs to educate itself on this war, as we are all rapidly becoming intimate with it.


Fuzzy

[Tricks]

VitaminC VitaminC:

The conservatives would love it if that happened, because they would become more popular....

That is the most retarded thing I have ever heard, stop trying to make this into a fucking partisan issue.

$1:

I think any party that started saying we should pull out will become very unpopular, and so they won't say it....

Doubtful. A lot of Canadians are against this right now, and one of the parties standing up and saying it will win their respect. Now, those people are probably already voting for that party.

$1:

Lots of Canadians have no idea why we're doing this. Some people think it is a trade for softwood lumber, or whatever other crap.....We need a debate to educate Canadians.

Nevermind, this may be the most retarded thing I have ever heard. Who the fuck think this is for lumber? If these Canadians are dumb enough to think this war is over fucking lumber, then I don't think we have to waste our time educating them. Fuck, when planes run into big buildings, and then a little while later we go to war, does that not seem....well....obvious?

[Bodah]

VitaminC VitaminC:

Lots of Canadians have no idea why we're doing this. Some people think it is a trade for softwood lumber, or whatever other crap.....We need a debate to educate Canadians.

I like to give the average Canadian more credit than that, Im sure they haven't already forgotten 911.

And if anyone says 911 is soley an American problem and its they're own responsibility to fight the forces that caused it, thats BS.

We didnt start this crazy shit, the nut job fanatics did.

VitaminC VitaminC:

If you are strong in your committment and belief in something you shouldn't be afraid if people question it. You should be happy to have the opportunity to tell tell them your reasons..

Were was the debate before the liberals sent them over? Airplanes flying into buildings is the reason they are there.... whats there to debate ? Questioning this after the fact is disrespectfull to the men/women over there that are willing to die for what some of us take for granted.

VitaminC VitaminC:

I think any party that started saying we should pull out will become very unpopular, and so they won't say it.... .

Be prepared to become suprised then.... What does the Bloc or the NDP have to lose? Infact they're going to be pressured to make the statement I guarantee it.

I know it would help the conservatives if the NDP or Bloc made a statement to that effect and I think thats why they are opening the debate.... a trap lays in wait.

[Tricks]

Bodah Bodah:

I like to give the average Canadian more credit than that, Im sure they haven't already forgotten 911.

He does that alot.

[SprCForr]

$1:

We didnt start this crazy shit, the nut job fanatics did

Were was the debate before the liberals sent them over?

Airplanes flying into buildings is the reason they are there.... whats there to debate ?

Firstly, Bodah I'm not picking on you or your posts. I'm going to use them to illustrate my point and they were convienient.

The above points are borderline jingoist. Those ones lean toward the right and the left has their version that we've all heard on TV, etc. This is exactly the kind of simplistic pap we need to fight. An issue as important as this shouldn't be decided on an intellectually lazy level. It is being reduced to an us/them yelling match. We haven't created the necessary united front at home to properly support our fighting forces. The "Why are we fighting? Because, you duh, they flew airplanes into some buildings and that's bad" or the "All war is bad get out now!" argument doesn't cut it. By perpetuating that sort of shallowness we become lazy and ripe for manipulation by anyone with an agenda. Although the govt has been slow off the line it's still not too late to unite Canadians and properly back this mission. There are a few things that need to be made perfectly clear to the population and our elected representatives. For example:

1. We need a clearly defined mission and goal.

2. It must be realistic and achievable.

3. The steps we need to reach that goal must be clearly spelled out.

4. The possible consequences must be identified.

Debate on simple questions like those will allow a consensus to be reached and will allow every Canadian to be informed as to the facts, our stand on the issue, what we will need to do to contribute, and what our goal is. Then it'll need to be drummed into the thickest Yuppie, SUV driving, latte shlepping, new age, navel gazing, maniac soccer mom (Yeah, like my sisters Regina!) Once she hoists it aboard then you know the message has been recieved.

$1:

If you are strong in your committment and belief in something you shouldn't be afraid if people question it. You should be happy to have the opportunity to tell tell them your reasons.

This is exactly right.

$1:

stop trying to make this into a fucking partisan issue.

This is exactly right, too. Put aside all the rhetoric, spin, media manipulation, and hidden agenda crap and focus on fact.

$1:

Questioning this after the fact is disrespectfull to the men/women over there that are willing to die for what some of us take for granted.

No, it's not. We need to get this done. Now. We owe it to the troops, ourselves and the Afghan people.

We aren't backing down from our stated commitment in Afghanistan. Fine. Our mission there is valid. So we have the debate. The government gets their ducks in a row, we know exactly what were doing, how were doing it and how we want it to end. A clear mandate is given to the troops, they won't need to keep looking over their shoulders to see if the public is still there with them and we need to roll up our fucking sleeves and get to work on this thing.

BTW, we all take it for granted. Everyday.

[oldcaper]

While some Canadians may be unsure of the Afghan mission,I believe that all of us fully support and respect our troops. With this in mind, I question why Def. Min. O`Connor has decided (as reported in Halifax Herald,Apr 6) to not fly the flags on Parliment Hill at half-mast in honor of any soldiers killed in Afghanistan. He says,"For the last 80 years,our national tradition has been to honor all (Canadian troops killed in service) on the same day in a national Rememberance Day ceremony." The lowering of the flags for our fallen soldiers of the Afghan mission was a request of the Chretien and Martin governments. I believe that we should continue to lower the flags to honor our fallen heroes if ,God forbid, we lose any more of our brave men or women.

[2Cdo]

As a conservative supporter and a member of the military I will say this. While it might not be a popular choice I think it is the correct choice! It is the Canadian public that has become so complacent in regards to our military that they want to overcompensate by lowering flags anytime a soldier dies!

I'm not saying that we shouldn't mourn our soldiers but if lowering the flag everytime a soldier dies becomes the norm, what's next, Sheila Copps ordering the Canadian Navy to half mast their flags on the ship while at sea in respect to the women killed in Montreal by the nutjob Lepine?

For those who don't know why that is wrong ask one of the resident navy types!

[VitaminC]

A lot of Canadians, including me, will drop their support if this turns into a "revenge for 9/11" ordeal....

I think it is really important for it to be stressed that the mission is about changing things for the future, not getting back at people for the past....

The reason is that I think it affects the mindset and attitude of the soldiers. I think they wil act differently if they think they are there to hurt the people who hurt us, as opposed to build a country where terrorism can't flourish....

I think Abu Graib happened because of the attitude that Americans were there to exact revenge, and hurt the people who hurt them.....I don't think torturing prisoners has anything to do with exacting intelligence, it is about exacting pain and blood for revenge.....

Our soldiers, I think, are well aware that they are there to help the Afghan people build a country that is free from terror. I think as long as that mindset persists it is much less likley that we will have our own Abu Graib or Fallujah Massacre in the future.

[ridenrain]

$1:

"Canada's been great for me, and this is my way of giving back. The people of Afghanistan are a society of oppression under the Taliban, the denial of basic human rights. The Taliban's not only bad for Afghanistan, but for all of us. The people want us there to help them in the fight.

"The problem in Canada is that, except for the veterans who fought, we don't really know what freedom is because there's never been a war for freedom on our soil. We take it for granted, we've nothing to compare it against. Lose the desire to fight for freedom, you will lose freedom."..

That's why Jed Stone, who asked the army for at least one tour of front-line duty in Afghanistan, will get that opportunity after 30 more weeks of intense training this summer at Camp Gagetown in New Brunswick...

More here.

[2Cdo]

$1:

that the mission is about changing things for the future, not getting back at people for the past....

That is only part of the mission. The other part is "getting back at people", namely Taliban and al Queda, and hunting them and KILLING them! You really need to wake up and find out the FACTS about a mission.

$1:

the mindset and attitude of the soldiers.

You really don't have a clue as to the mindset of a soldier!

[Tricks]

2Cdo 2Cdo:

$1:

that the mission is about changing things for the future, not getting back at people for the past....

That is only part of the mission. The other part is "getting back at people", namely Taliban and al Queda, and hunting them and KILLING them! You really need to wake up and find out the FACTS about a mission.

$1:

the mindset and attitude of the soldiers.

You really don't have a clue as to the mindset of a soldier!

My thoughts exactely. Part of it is revenge Vit. Attacked the WTC and especially the pentagon was an act of war.

[Canadaka]

my support of continued presence in afganistan was a bit iffy.

But after watching a call in show on CPAC, GoldHawk Live, where they had a Liberal MP Keith Martin on, My support is much more cemented.

He really seemed to know what he was talking about and fielded questions from callers supporting and nor supporting it. The Conservative and NDP reps both didnt showup, which I think was a good thing in this case, would have just been political stabs.

[Scape]

He should know it, it is his portfolio after all. He talked rings around the other candidates in the last election, he could have run as an independent and still take the seat. And that's with the local talk radio hosts hounding him that he was nothing but a sellout.

[ridenrain]

$1:

In a weekend interview with The Canadian Press, insurgent spokesman Qari Yuosaf Ahmedi said the Taliban are convinced the resolve of the Canadian people is weak.
As suicide attacks and roadside blasts increase, the public will quickly grow weary, he said.
“We think that when we kill enough Canadians they will quit war and return home,” Mr. Ahmedi said in an interview, conducted through a translator, over a satellite telephone.
Given the fact troops are already deployed, Mr. Ahmedi suggested Monday's House of Commons debate as a sign of indecision among Canadians.
In addition to his fire-breathing rhetoric, the Taliban's public relations spokesman claimed that the insurgency had recruited 180 suicide bombers for operations in and around Kandahar over the next few weeks.
He said they are prepared to attack Canadians “any one else, at any place and at any time.”
But coalition commanders had a vastly different assessment, painting the Taliban as cornered, marginalized into rural pockets, struggling to raise money and find recruits.
“The reason we think the Taliban are falling apart is because the pattern of attacks we're seeing is not co-ordinated,” said Major Quentin Innis, a Canadian liaison officer with the local community.
“It may appear there are a lot of attacks going on and those are regretable.”

I guess the NDP will be sending the Taliban some T-shirts along with some membership cards?

[EyeBrock]

fatbasturd fatbasturd:

Robair Robair:

fatbasturd fatbasturd:

With that said the real reason that Canada has taken over the mission in Afghanistan..is because the US is going broke(10 billion a month)because of thier big war IRAQ.
So as being the good chaps we are our soldiers are left holding the bag untill the US figures out how the fuck to deal with that situation.
I do not believe in the policy that sent our troops to Afghanistan...but now that they are thier...we must stand up as Canadains stop whining about it and support our troops 100%

That is pretty much why we are still there, but the reason we went to Afghanistan in the first place is the USA was attacked.

We have an agreement, when one of our countries is attacked, we both respond.

This is why I supported our effort in Afghanistan from day one. Iraq is another story, I'm still trying to figure out exactly why the Bush administration went and picked a second fight there.

I wrote this

$1:

With that said the real reason that Canada has taken over the mission in Afghanistan

I have no issue with why we went..just with why we got left holding the bag on this issue...The US should have never been allowed to pull out.

You really do need to research these matters before you comment on them.

The US is far from pulling out and leaving us "holding the bag".

Who do you think flies the aeromed evacuation flights from Afghanistan to Germany? The US.

Who do you think built and runs the hospital our guys go to? The US.

Who do you think provides 'in theatre' heli transport, sure as hell isn't Air Command. The US.

Who provides gunship support to our guys in the field? Not Air Command again!
The US.

Who provides close air support and combat air patrols?
Air Command CF18's? Nope, they are fighting the war on terror from CFB Baggotville. It's the US again.

Who provides strategic Air Transport assets to the CF to support our clapped out CC130’s? The US.

The US has 17,000 troops still in Afghanistan. Those troops are set to remain in theatre for the foreseeable future.
Hardly leaving us to hold the bag with 17,000 US troops to our 2500.

This kind of rabid anti-Americanism wrapped in ersatz Canadian Nationalism is truly pointless and patently WRONG.

FB, get informed on these matters, like our media you purport generalism's that are just plain wrong.

I wonder why the Yanks get pissed of at us?
Because we are less than grateful to the assistance we get from them where it matters. On the ground, supporting our troops, helping us in ways that we are unable to help our selves in because we have neglected the Canadian Forces for so long.



Read....

http://www.cfc-a.centcom.mil/