[Choban]

$1:

What drugs were those?

Article in the Herald yesterday claims the Dasughter testified it was Morphine

$1:

He may be legally guilty for the extreme he believed had to go to but existentially he's a goddamn hero for saving his child

I'm guessing he's quite prepared to deal with the reprecussions as well.

[andyt]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5j_EKqYwCmxZjxOi5x6Jstkw5QVQw?docId=6820799

Reading this article, it seems to me the guy has at least a shot at claiming self defense or manslaughter. A slim one.

Really a sad story. We can't have people doing vigilante justice, but at the same time, his motivation is perfectly understandable and we should see how we can tweak the system so this kind of incident can't happen. I don't have any bright ideas tho. Anybody?

[DrCaleb]

andyt andyt:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5j_EKqYwCmxZjxOi5x6Jstkw5QVQw?docId=6820799

Reading this article, it seems to me the guy has at least a shot at claiming self defense or manslaughter. A slim one.

Really a sad story. We can't have people doing vigilante justice, but at the same time, his motivation is perfectly understandable and we should see how we can tweak the system so this kind of incident can't happen. I don't have any bright ideas tho. Anybody?

Make sentences for dealers, pushers and pimps actually fit the crime by reflecting how much damage they do to society. I compliment places like China and Singapore on how they deal with these crimes, just not on how thoroughly they investigate it and ensure they punish the right person.

[peck420]

Bump age of full consent to 18, under 18 +- 2 years.

Just an idea. I have no idea how many drug pushers and pimps are under 20.
But, it would limit 24 year olds to 18 and up...even would limit 18 year olds to 16 and up.

As for ensuring that it "can't happen"...I don't even think it would be possible. I would just look for minimizing the possibility.

[andyt]

I doubt if we followed the Chinese approach we would eradicate or even reduce drug use in this country. The war on drugs certainly has failed. Legalization and regulation seems like the best option.

[peck420]

I am pro legalization of drugs for a couple of reasons:

1) Makes it taxable - could even produce enough profits to provide proper drug education.
2) Healthier - if it is legal it can have standards applied to it. You buy heroin it comes with clean needle (priced in of course), etc.
3) Removes the profits from organized crime - always a bonus.
4) Controllable - you can't control the 'black market' nearly as well as an open market.

Complete side, if drugs were involved in this instance, and the drug was legal, what do you think the odds of this happening would have been?

[DrCaleb]

peck420 peck420:

Bump age of full consent to 18, under 18 +- 2 years.

Just an idea. I have no idea how many drug pushers and pimps are under 20.
But, it would limit 24 year olds to 18 and up...even would limit 18 year olds to 16 and up.

. . .except on weekdays with an 'r'. .

Is there an age of consent for taking drugs and engaging in prostitution? 'Consent' is a silly concept. Some people are 'adult' enough for adult decisions at 15. Some I wouldn't give them that credit at 30.

Illegal is illegal. Limiting the age at which something becomes legal simply changes the punishment, not the damage they already did because they've been doing it for years.

Then again, when I have a daughter who is of dating age, I will be in the rocking chair on the porch with a shotgun in my lap in case she is not brought home at 10:30 on the nose.

[DrCaleb]

andyt andyt:

I doubt if we followed the Chinese approach we would eradicate or even reduce drug use in this country. The war on drugs certainly has failed. Legalization and regulation seems like the best option.

I'll bet you can't go to a major Chinese city and see drug dealers on the corners of the seedier parts of the city.

peck420 peck420:

I am pro legalization of drugs for a couple of reasons:

1) Makes it taxable - could even produce enough profits to provide proper drug education.
2) Healthier - if it is legal it can have standards applied to it. You buy heroin it comes with clean needle (priced in of course), etc.
3) Removes the profits from organized crime - always a bonus.
4) Controllable - you can't control the 'black market' nearly as well as an open market.

Complete side, if drugs were involved in this instance, and the drug was legal, what do you think the odds of this happening would have been?

I can see decriminalization of 'natural' drugs, like MJ or peyote, but man made stuff like coke or meth or even heroin should never be.

[peck420]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

. . .except on weekdays with an 'r'. .

Is there an age of consent for taking drugs and engaging in prostitution? 'Consent' is a silly concept. Some people are 'adult' enough for adult decisions at 15. Some I wouldn't give them that credit at 30.

Illegal is illegal. Limiting the age at which something becomes legal simply changes the punishment, not the damage they already did because they've been doing it for years.

Then again, when I have a daughter who is of dating age, I will be in the rocking chair on the porch with a shotgun in my lap in case she is not brought home at 10:30 on the nose.

Changing the age is purely to give parents and LEO's an excuse to check in if requested.

In this case, even if dad did call the police, there is nothing they could have done unless drugs or pimping was present.

If the consent age was bumbed up, they could have ended it right then and there.

[andyt]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

andyt andyt:

I doubt if we followed the Chinese approach we would eradicate or even reduce drug use in this country. The war on drugs certainly has failed. Legalization and regulation seems like the best option.

I'll bet you can't go to a major Chinese city and see drug dealers on the corners of the seedier parts of the city.

Nope. And you can't see free elections either. I don't think you can separate out their drug approach from their legal system and social system in general. The US had/has some pretty draconian laws against drugs, but it hasn't helped one bit. Doubt it would be any more successful here.

[peck420]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I can see decriminalization of 'natural' drugs, like MJ or peyote, but man made stuff like coke or meth or even heroin should never be.

Natural or not they will be used.

We can't even begin to control it if it is illegal. They have been trying for decades with very little success.

We can at least minimize harm if it is legalized.

The final decision to use or not use will still, and always, rest with the user. If legalization did nothing but change quality that would be better than now. You want meth from the guy making it in his basement? Or the stuff that is screened and checked and behind the counter at the Mac's?

Not to mention what legalization would do to organized crime...

[andyt]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Then again, when I have a daughter who is of dating age, I will be in the rocking chair on the porch with a shotgun in my lap in case she is not brought home at 10:30 on the nose.

Do you have a daughter at all? You might be surprised how much (little control) you have with a teen, and trying to enforce strict curfews may not work out so well either. Probably want to look at an attitude that says she's a helpless victim while her boyfriend is a nasty abuser, and spend more time teaching your daughter about responsibility and self-respect. Maybe that's where dad went off the rails in this case. Obviously loves her very much, but maybe set up a scenario where she was taking the rebellion thing too far. Not that there's an easy answer to all this, but just focusing on the bf and seeing your daughter as an innocent little virgin probably doesn't help.

[raydan]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

. . .except on weekdays with an 'r'. .

Is there an age of consent for taking drugs and engaging in prostitution? 'Consent' is a silly concept. Some people are 'adult' enough for adult decisions at 15. Some I wouldn't give them that credit at 30.

Illegal is illegal. Limiting the age at which something becomes legal simply changes the punishment, not the damage they already did because they've been doing it for years.

Then again, when I have a daughter who is of dating age, I will be in the rocking chair on the porch with a shotgun in my lap in case she is not brought home at 10:30 on the nose.

Don't need a shotgun...

...I've scared a few of my daughters' "boyfriends".
You have no idea how far a "look" or a "veiled threat" can go.

I even remember scaring a few of my sister's boyfriends (she's 4 years younger than me).

[DrCaleb]

peck420 peck420:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I can see decriminalization of 'natural' drugs, like MJ or peyote, but man made stuff like coke or meth or even heroin should never be.

Natural or not they will be used.

We can't even begin to control it if it is illegal. They have been trying for decades with very little success.

We can at least minimize harm if it is legalized.

The final decision to use or not use will still, and always, rest with the user. If legalization did nothing but change quality that would be better than now. You want meth from the guy making it in his basement? Or the stuff that is screened and checked and behind the counter at the Mac's?

Not to mention what legalization would do to organized crime...

They can't control it when it's illegal, what makes anyone think they could when it's legal? The Canadian government is doing so well with medical MJ that they got taken to court over their bungling.

Legalization will simply drop the price, and drop the risk of illegal bootlegging, just as is done now with cigarettes, alcohol and guns.

Addicts have no choice as to whether or not to use.

Enforcement however . . .

[DrCaleb]

raydan raydan:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

. . .except on weekdays with an 'r'. .

Is there an age of consent for taking drugs and engaging in prostitution? 'Consent' is a silly concept. Some people are 'adult' enough for adult decisions at 15. Some I wouldn't give them that credit at 30.

Illegal is illegal. Limiting the age at which something becomes legal simply changes the punishment, not the damage they already did because they've been doing it for years.

Then again, when I have a daughter who is of dating age, I will be in the rocking chair on the porch with a shotgun in my lap in case she is not brought home at 10:30 on the nose.

Don't need a shotgun...

...I've scared a few of my daughters' "boyfriends".
You have no idea how far a "look" or a "veiled threat" can go.

I even remember scaring a few of my sister's boyfriends (she's 4 years younger than me).

A shotgun with rock salt works very well as a 'veiled threat' though. I have leaned well from my Uncle who raised 3 girls. Very intimidating fellow.