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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 8:49 pm
 


netking81 netking81:
Got to admit, when everything started out I was expecting to see WMD's and was disapointed when none were found. Farenhieght 9/11 further upset me. But then I realised, what is being accomplished by being upset and bitching about the sistuation? Nothing.

So I've decieded that we can't just leave Iraq. There is now the responsibility of giving the Iraqie people something for what we have taken away. All the death and devastation that was caused all because of one of two reasons. Bad intel, or cooked intel (aka, Lies to get support). Either way we have made a mess on the lunchroom floor and we gotta pick it up.

Democratic Iraq wil not look like the US as the US does not look like Canada but both claim to be democratic countries. In the future I believe that Iraq will be one of our allies and a trading partner for decades to come. If it costs 1.3 trillion dollars to secure several times more in trade revenue, consider it an investment of not just money. Also include the blood, limbs, and lives that have also been taken.

Now look into what history has to tell. Does masive loss of life due to war end up resulting in a stronger economy? It's sick, but yes there is a pattern here. Some would even be as bold as to call it the American way of life.


Ya, Iraq as a US controlled puppet will be the US' ally. It's just like Afganistan. But the people will hate the US and MC Dubya for a long ass time.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 5:21 am
 


I wonder how far 1.3 trillion dollars would go toward researching and developing ideas that would reduce our reliance on oil.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 6:27 am
 


ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
The more things drag out, the more I'm wondering if it would be possible fore the elections in '08 to be cancelled under the guise of some contrived state of emergency. You just have to wonder at times.....



I believe its Jeb's turn at bat. I hear he's real good at federal elections. Bush = 8 more years.

MWA HAHAHAHAHAHAH
jusin the seriously disturbed


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 9:09 am
 


Iraq will be like Turkey.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 9:14 am
 


Constantinople Constantinople:
Iraq will be like Turkey.


Eaten for Thanksgiving? Doesn't sound to appealing to me...


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 10:46 am
 


Ripcat Ripcat:
I wonder how far 1.3 trillion dollars would go toward researching and developing ideas that would reduce our reliance on oil.


Well give me $5000 for start up cost and I can start to produce Bio-Diesel for less than $2 a gallon and still make a small profit. A couple of people in Idaho have figured out a way to bake Bio-Oil. Of course don't forget about the other technologies we have developed like Hydrogen/Oxygen fuel cells. In fact when I last checked Ballard Power Systems in BC was leading the pack in fuel cell technology.

$1.3 trillion would no doubt boost all these technoogies and could also produce new ones like the car in Back To The Future running off of fruits and vegetables! Ok I know only the time machine part did that and the engine still ran on gas. But with 1.3 trillion you could do anything, hell you could make alchahol from corn and call it Ethanol.... Or did someone allready figure that out?


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:12 pm
 


IceOwl IceOwl:
Constantinople Constantinople:
Wouldn't a mirror that large deflect enough heat in our atmosphere to end global warming?


No, because it's not heat being radiated at us, it's trapped heat.


And how do you think the Earth gets the heat that gets trapped.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:29 pm
 


Constantinople Constantinople:
IceOwl IceOwl:
Constantinople Constantinople:
Wouldn't a mirror that large deflect enough heat in our atmosphere to end global warming?


No, because it's not heat being radiated at us, it's trapped heat.


And how do you think the Earth gets the heat that gets trapped.


Oh don't bother argueing about this... the little right-wing fantasy will never come to fruition so just move on.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:58 pm
 


netking81 netking81:
Well give me $5000 for start up cost and I can start to produce Bio-Diesel for less than $2 a gallon and still make a small profit. A couple of people in Idaho have figured out a way to bake Bio-Oil. Of course don't forget about the other technologies we have developed like Hydrogen/Oxygen fuel cells. In fact when I last checked Ballard Power Systems in BC was leading the pack in fuel cell technology.
$1.3 trillion would no doubt boost all these technoogies and could also produce new ones like the car in Back To The Future running off of fruits and vegetables! Ok I know only the time machine part did that and the engine still ran on gas. But with 1.3 trillion you could do anything, hell you could make alchahol from corn and call it Ethanol.... Or did someone allready figure that out?

Almost all of the bio-type fuels are net-energy negative. This includes bio-diesel, soy, and ethanol (ethanol is a farm subsidy program, not an energy program). That means, end-to-end, they take more energy to grow, process, distill, and distribute than they provide in energy output when you burn them. This translates into: although you can push the economic peanut around today and make a bit of money off of them, they will not save our asses in the long run. Technology might be able to push some of the marginal ones into net-energy positive territory, and I am all for research money to do that. Hydrogen fuel cells are a energy storage and transfer mechanism, not energy itself. It can be part of the solution in making alternative energy storable and maybe portable. But it will not save us either. I would like to see a lot of research, planning, and technology put into figuring out how to re-create communities, cities, transportation systems, food production, manufacturing, etc. to be much, much more energy efficient (rather than just how to get more things to burn) and to use alternative energy that is not net-negative and that is low or non-carbon producing. We will continue to need petroleum products for as long as they last, so no Albertans start flaming me. I can see your resources going way up in price, but lasting a lot longer if such a program were pursued to remake society to be more energy efficient. That's not bad for the resource-rich areas in the long run. Especially if money for a lot of the research into all these new efficiencies is directed towards fossil-fuel-producing regions.
I know of Ballard as a leader in hydrogen fuel cells. (Something a Canadian company is known for here in the States, btw, and identified as Canadian.)
Mostly, I'd like to see money put into redesigning society for efficiency and use of renewable energy. Our cities and the way we live developed based on the premise of cheap energy that we can use indiscriminately, and that will not be true forever. There are many reasons to reduce how much we burn, regardless of the source. We, in both the US and Canada, need to live a little differently I think. It sucks that I don't see any hope of the US having the vision to pursue this kind of effort with all our dollars (and lives). Even if history plays out such that in 50 years invading and occupying Iraq doesn't seem as bad as it looks right now, we will eventually need to face the music on this one imho. I am not a doom-and-gloomer on energy; I just think we can do a lot better, and hopefully spend less on killing people around the globe for it.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 2:07 pm
 


In that case suburbia is doomed and so too will the housing market as it is based upon growth. I think what your saying is correct, inevitable and will destroy the world economy as we know it. We will be taking a huge hit to keep ourselves sustainable but I do not see any other alternatives.

Oil has been around and has a deep and substantive support. Alternative fuel sources are just being started. Mainly because oil was so cheap and easy. The zero sum gain of the alternate fuels will be rectified once they become more accessible and production becomes cheaper by volume.

A water wheel is effective for producing energy but we don't use them because we have cheaper power and everything is already geared up for electricity, oil and gas. We don't need to reinvent the wheel we just need to have the industry that can provide it. Nationalization would go a long way to meeting that goal. In Iceland they are going for a hydrogen economy. In the US there are bio-diesel projects for entire states but it is a state by state initiative. With oil heading for 80$ a barrel it will do serious damage to the economy in terms of inflation. The party is over with oil its time to get serious about working on a national plan.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 2:20 pm
 


that is a trifling amount in comparison. I believe the national debt is something like two hundred and forty five trillion dollars.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 7:58 pm
 


Wouldn't the glass not reflect the sun anyway, since it needs a heavily polished silver backing? Thus making the whole Global Warming arguement pointless :P


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