[dino_bobba_renno]

ridenrain ridenrain:

That may have been the plan for the opposition parties because their all really trying to eat each others lunch, but Harper got in many good platform details and that's the sort of positive things that do win over soft voters from the other side.

Harper out of all of them definitely debated more on policy. I like the exchange when Layton challenged Harper on his tax cuts during the health care portion. Harper looked right at him and squared off against him explaining why the cuts were needed.

May was frisky during the debate (for lack of a better word) but really there wasn't much substance behind her remarks. She seemed to be resorting to the "Harper is evil" tactic more so than concentrating on her own parties platform. Probably because they don't have one

Dion had some intresting ideas in the last half I didn't think he really got his fair share of time in on the debate.

[BlueMan]

I would really like to know how Dion thinks his plan will reduce carbon emmisions. As I said in a previous topic, taxes did not stop people from drinking, or smoking, and they will not stop driving their vehicle, or heating their home.

Steel can not be made without burning coal. Steel is what most of the things we use every day are made out of. It's been a while since my last metalurgy class, but I think it takes about 400lb of coal, and about the same amount of natual gas per ton of hot metal, and that is just the first stage. This is a chemical process, not just melting. The carbon is part of the process. Does this mean the end of steel production? It will in Canada if the carbon is taxed. Steel has so little profit left as it is...

There are many other industries that must release carbon dioxide as part of the process. We can't shut them down without catastrophic job losses, and they will just start up somewhere else and continue to put out CO2.

Basicly, the best we can do is clean up where we can until we find other ways to make the things we need. Taxes will just hurt the economy and drive manufacturing out of Canada.

[dino_bobba_renno]

BlueMan BlueMan:

I would really like to know how Dion thinks his plan will reduce carbon emmisions. As I said in a previous topic, taxes did not stop people from drinking, or smoking, and they will not stop driving their vehicle, or heating their home.

Steel can not be made without burning coal. Steel is what most of the things we use every day are made out of. It's been a while since my last metalurgy class, but I think it takes about 400lb of coal, and about the same amount of natual gas per ton of hot metal, and that is just the first stage. This is a chemical process, not just melting. The carbon is part of the process. Does this mean the end of steel production? It will in Canada if the carbon is taxed. Steel has so little profit left as it is...

There are many other industries that must release carbon dioxide as part of the process. We can't shut them down without catastrophic job losses, and they will just start up somewhere else and continue to put out CO2.

Basicly, the best we can do is clean up where we can until we find other ways to make the things we need. Taxes will just hurt the economy and drive manufacturing out of Canada.

I think you hit the nail on the head there. I remember seeing a report shortly after the fuel price spike that showed that fuel consumption didn't go down at all during the spike. In order for a carbon tax to be effective on a consumer level it would have to be punishingly high.

[Pimpbrewski]

IMO there was no ''outright'' winner in this debate it seems. As many of people have already mentioned, the Green party had no real relevance to be there in the 1st place. Completely out of touch with the issues other than environment.

I must admit that Harper seem to be a bit too relax. Yes, as mentioned earlier, it may work to his advantage. But he could have responded in a more confronting manner, mostly towards Duceppe. Still, he held his own despite his French, which is completely understandable. He portrays himself as a leader, cool under pressure. That is what matters most. Now it remains to be seen if the journalistic consensus is fair to him especially in the QC media, where, as we all know, tends to favour that Duceppe buddy of theirs.

[McRobert]

I sure as hell did understand and as a person with no favorite party.. I must say that Dion was the most impressive. He was stressing the need to invest in the 21st century technologies as part of the solution to our problems. Mobilizing the Canadian peoples resources and promoting the research and development into new energy solutions is KEY.

For instance, If we were to develop new world class energy solutions we could then sell these things abroad and make an excellent return. Most new technologies that are being flirted with are more efficient and are less harmful to our environment so its win win. Infrastructure and ensuring that Canada is competitive as well as concious and moral about what we are doing to the world is important to me. I seem to care about future generations, I don't think that Harper gets that.

-U of T developed a paint that is able to harness energy the same way as a solar panel.

-China has already developed a hydrogen on demand vehicle.. (I myself have made hydrogen on demand torches or to reduce my gas consumption)

-Cold fusion technology is said to be worth looking into despite the war against it by big oil money.

Real solutions are in real progression.. Keeping us competitive means keep Canada innovative not tossign tax breaks and deregulating to the point where we are vulnerable. Hey lets just Neo-Con it up and sell more of our mineral rights to foreign interests, imagine if we still controlled petro Canada or did more in the way of refining our oil as well!

This wave of Conservatives are laughable at best. I am almost ill to my stomach trying to comprehend the WAY SOME OF YOU PERCIEVE THINGS.



-RE-GARDS.


PS. I have witnessed the surplus go down steadily since the Liberals held power and I have not seen anything positive in the economy. I see money being handed out to big business and the plants closing regardless. If thats the kind of fiscal policy you Conservatives subscribe to.. So help you all when the shit hits the fan and it will.

"Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance" -Einstein

[Reverend Blair]

Wow, four pages already. Was PM Steve on Quaaludes? Never mind that, did anybody see that Merhachand woman on NewsWorld after the debates. Apparently the cameraman gave her something to keep her awake.

Since you asked, Blueman, Dion's plan may or may not reduce emissions. I think it's most likely that people will just pay more and whine a lot. The basic idea is sound...tax carbon instead of income...but as I type this I have a smoke dangling from the side of my mouth and a beer balanced on the armrest of the chesterfield.

If it does work and emissions go down, then the government will run out of money before it can reach the next stage because nobody will be paying taxes.

Cap and trade works better.

[RUEZ]

BlueMan BlueMan:

I would really like to know how Dion thinks his plan will reduce carbon emmisions. As I said in a previous topic, taxes did not stop people from drinking, or smoking, and they will not stop driving their vehicle, or heating their home.

This is a very good question and one I've been trying to get answers to as well. In BC we have the carbon tax and people haven't stopped driving. People started driving less when gas hit a dollar a liter. If governments were serious about lowing ghg's they would be investing in alternatives not taxing the hell out of the consumer.

[McRobert]

Investment in FUTURE ENERGY SOLUTIONS WORKS BEST! Do you not understand the potential market for Canadian made energy solutions? If we focused on that alone we could avoid much of what is burdoning the rest of the world right now.

[dino_bobba_renno]

Pimpbrewski Pimpbrewski:

IMO there was no ''outright'' winner in this debate.

I don't know about a winner but I do think there were some definite losers.

May, feisty but hallow.
Dion, not because he didn't do well but because he needed to do better.

Pimpbrewski Pimpbrewski:

I must admit that Harper seem to be a bit too relax..

Ya I noticed that to. He over did the "easy going" thing a bit but I'd say he did well other then that. Duceppe did score some good points on him though.

What did every think of the forum used for the debate? Video questions, sitting at a table (an rather unusual one at that)? I though it was pretty good as it was a bit more casual than standing at a podium taking questions from a mod but I do think that the extra person took away from the debate over all. It slowed things down to much.

[Pimpbrewski]

Ok, McNugget or McRobert, discuss the particularities of the debate itself then.

[BlueMan]

McRobert McRobert:

Investment in FUTURE ENERGY SOLUTIONS WORKS BEST! Do you not understand the potential market for Canadian made energy solutions? If we focused on that alone we could avoid much of what is burdoning the rest of the world right now.

Well, go ahead and invest in it. I hope it works out for you.

I wish cold fusion was real. I wish you didn't have to put more energy into hydrogen production than you get out of it. Unfortunately, you can't change physics, chemistry, or thermodynamics.

[Reverend Blair]

it does, McRobert, but this thread is about the debate. If you want to talk about global warming around here you'll first have to wade through the denialists.

I should likely rate the debaters. I tend to look at the losers instead of the winners, so I'll rate them by those who did the most harm to themselves.

1. Harper. He said a scientist was a Liberal. His fake smile looked like grimace. He didn't speak much. He loses.
2. Dion. He looked...wrong. He needed to look poised and scrappy. Instead he looked like Steve Harper with a slightly better haircut.
3. Layton. No great performance, although the translators seemed to have less trouble with his French than usual.
4. May. She did well with the fraud thing. Even I know it's the same in English and French, but she played it up just right.
5. Duceppe. When he kept telling Harper to answer the question, he won. The moderator likely should have slapped him around a bit, but he successfully pointed out that Harper wasn't being honest.

[McRobert]

Yes, mocking my ALIAS says it all. Why dont you?

This is what I see..

Ohhh yeah eh, he gots the calm thing down, he gots called on his lies and distortions by everybody but he looked good eh.. he handled himself real well..brb I needa brewski..pssssst..ahhhhhh..I love politic-ing.

[Reverend Blair]

$1:

Yes, mocking my ALIAS says it all. Why dont you?

This is what I see..

Ohhh yeah eh, he gots the calm thing down, he gots called on his lies and distortions by everybody but he looked good eh.. he handled himself real well..brb I needa brewski..pssssst..ahhhhhh..I love politic-ing.

Don't worry about them too much, McRobert. they're Conservatives and don't know any better.

[Pimpbrewski]

The funny thing is that I am not even a partisan and usually do not even comment on political matters.