[Lemmy]

Yeah, but to keep the analogy going, there comes a time when, whether the kid wants to grow up or not, you have to kick his ass out the door...for his own good.

Regardless what you think about natives and their plight, the fact is that what we've been doing for the past however many years isn't working. It's long past the time to tear down the whole system and try something different. Will the natives like those changes? A lot likely won't, especially initially. But it's in their long-term best interest (and the rest of Canada's) to end the special treatment.

[Zipperfish]

Well, if it's any consolation Canada ignores Canadian law too, when it comes to First Nations.

I agree with Lemmy though. Just about everyone hates the Indian Act. Even the name in these "enlightened" times, sits sourly on the tongue. Yet no one has the will to change it. Too many vested interests and not enough political upside for any government willing to take it on. And lots of lots of dirty lanudry. We're talking skivvies with skid marks.

LIke the Israel-Palestine conflict, I've come to the conclusions that everyone here tacitly, and perhaps subconsciously, accepts that this constant low-level conflict is the most stable status quo.

[andyt]

$1:

"We're living under the Indian Act which goes against all human rights."

Even this chief is against it. The devil is in the details of removing the act. I doubt if "hey, lets remove the act and you can be Canadians just like the rest of us" would meet his approval, and he'd probably use the constitution to back him up.

[Curtman]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Yeah, but to keep the analogy going, there comes a time when, whether the kid wants to grow up or not, you have to kick his ass out the door...for his own good.

Regardless what you think about natives and their plight, the fact is that what we've been doing for the past however many years isn't working. It's long past the time to tear down the whole system and try something different. Will the natives like those changes? A lot likely won't, especially initially. But it's in their long-term best interest (and the rest of Canada's) to end the special treatment.

So you feel we should get out of the agreements we made and give the land back?

[Lemmy]

Who are "we"? Under the system, as I would design it, there would only be a "we". There would be no "them" and, therefore, no one to give any land back to.

[Curtman]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Who are "we"? Under the system, as I would design it, there would only be a "we". There would be no "them" and, therefore, no one to give any land back to.

I can definitely agree with that sentiment, but we and them are the signatories to the legally binding treaty agreements. All the kumbaya in the world wont change that.

[andyt]

the constitution also has something to say about that. We're basically doomed to live with this shit forever. In BC just now, the news is trumpeting the success story of an Indian band that actually got off their ass and logged some trees. They are now selling those raw logs to China. Wouldn't surprise me if they get all sorts of govt subsidies to make this venture work. I don't think it's much to celebrate. If they were adding value to the wood, doing it on their own dime, and paying taxes on the profits, that would be a different matter.

[Bacardi4206]

First Nations use to follow Canadian Law? That's news to me.

[Lemmy]

Curtman Curtman:

I can definitely agree with that sentiment, but we and them are the signatories to the legally binding treaty agreements. All the kumbaya in the world wont change that.

Which is why ALL laws ought to have a shelf-life. Why should any of us have an obligation to abide by a law or agreement written by people long dead before any of us were born?

[Zipperfish]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Which is why ALL laws ought to have a shelf-life. Why should any of us have an obligation to abide by a law or agreement written by people long dead before any of us were born?

Tell me about it. What are you supposed to say when a guy from First Nations starts spouting off about the King George Proclamation of 1763. It's like, Exsqueeze me? I baking powder?

[Curtman]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Curtman Curtman:

I can definitely agree with that sentiment, but we and them are the signatories to the legally binding treaty agreements. All the kumbaya in the world wont change that.

Which is why ALL laws ought to have a shelf-life. Why should any of us have an obligation to abide by a law or agreement written by people long dead before any of us were born?

Ought to, but didn't. Canada needs to honour its obligations. Not begrudgingly. We wronged them and we should do what we can to make it right instead of being parasites.

[Lemmy]

Curtman Curtman:

Ought to, but didn't. Canada needs to honour its obligations. Not begrudgingly. We wronged them and we should do what we can to make it right instead of being parasites.

You're talking about a "we" again that doesn't exist. Yes, we should do what can to help them, like ALL Canadians. But the only group being parasites are the natives and we've made them parasites by our policies. What we're doing for them isn't helping them out. Time to try something new.

[peck420]

So, correct me if I am wrong here, the only way out of the current treaties is to offer a treaty good enough that all parties agree and include a shelf life as well as a clause that negates all previous treaties?

[Lemmy]

What we need is the political will to say "the system's fucked, let's fix it". Without that first step there's no way forward.

[Curtman]

Lemmy Lemmy:

You're talking about a "we" again that doesn't exist. Yes, we should do what can to help them, like ALL Canadians. But the only group being parasites are the natives and we've made them parasites by our policies. What we're doing for them isn't helping them out. Time to try something new.

Canada doesnt exist?