[martin14]

Bmada Bmada:

kenmore kenmore:

As someone who works in health care and having worked years in an ER, I am sure that through out this country there are many people who die waiting to be seen. Is the fact that someone one is non white an issue? Don't think so. The issue is the health status during admission to the ER and the extreme pressure on the system by full treatment areas and people waiting to be seen, some for issues that could be dealt with at after hour clinics or family doctors. There are many many factors that come into play including shortage of both doctors and nures, so yes you might get into the treatment area and die there waiting instead of the waiting room. I doubt race had anything to do with it.

I'm not asking about the healthcare system's racism, I'm asking about one person basically blurting out Natives earn the discrimination they face, which i find offensive. They make no apology and only correct themselves to a degree as to not use the word "earn" or imply that they deserve the discrimination. I am trying to get an apology but they refuse to because they think they did no wrong and believe the small correction they made sufficed as a proper amendment to a racist statement. ANd she's pretty much saying that if I find offense, I need to deal with it, not her, the racist in question.

Yes, you are a PC twat.
By what right do you claim to have the authority to try and shove
your pathetic view of the universe down someone else's throat ?

[DVC185]

Mr Bmada, I express my opinions in public and I don't care who you are or if your feelings get hurt.

If I think someone is scum of the earth, that's my opinion. If you share it, great. If not, tough.

[CommanderSock]

DVC185 DVC185:

Well there Mr Bmada, I suppose your point of view is based on how far north of the 401 you've been....

I grew up in Northern Ontario and Quebec and have seen firsthand their problems but my mother just said they were "people with difficulties." Once I started raising my own little son of a b....um...darlings, I have dragged them through Labrador, Alberta and the Northwest Territories.

So, the perspective.....

I have never ever seen firemen and paramedics chipping a drunk and frozen whiteman off of the sidewalk in February. I have never ever been forced to search for a three year old white baby dressed in a diaper and t-shirt in Decemember. And I have never ever pulled a whiteman out of the water who went through the ice a couple of months ago. There are a lot of things I have never ever done involving a whiteman (or black or yellow or any other colour) but for some reason, I have had to partake in ugly and generally doomed undertakings involving that amazing steward of the land - the Canadian Native.

I like to think I'm pretty normal in my dealings with people and respectful when dealing with the black cabbie, the Chinese cook, the Filipino cleaner or the guy behind the counter at Mac's Milk who always smiles and says "Good Morning." I do not base my opinion of an entire people on a sole incident or a TV show but real interaction over many years. And unfortunately, the majority of those are negative experiences.

Mr Bmada, if we are in conversation and I say something regarding Natives, I am basing it on 5 decades of experience. If you find it offensive or racist, tough.

So, are you being too politically correct or am I being racist? Who gives a shit...let's just agree to disagree on our opinion of Natives. You would never ever get an apology out of me!!

You've just described a typical South African slumdweller with a Canadian spin.

It's something to do with being conquered.

If the indigenous people aren't numerous enough to scare (usually through violence and political pressure) the establishment they will wither away culturally.

Aborigines in Australia, Native Canadians and American Natives all share almost the same social issues (drugs, delinquency, lack of employment, alcohol abuse and so on) yet they are so different genetically (especially Aborigines).

Rhodesians (Zimbabweans), South Africans, Namibians used sheer African brute force and numbers to scare European colonists into regression and are not culturally withering. Their "native" culture is slowly returning.


Ultimately demographics play a role in perception. In America natives aren't really discussed because they're such a tiny minority. In Canada they constitute 3% of the population, which in some communities it can be enough to cause a stir. In both cases there are calls to for them to integrate. Amusing but unfruitful, the establishment doesn't want them to integrate. Those are sweet words but bear no weight.

The issue is thrown into the backburner because natives in these countries don't have the demographics to shift the political scene, integration is impossible as discrimination is still to powerful (I have seen it on a regular basis in Northern Ontario - "the native is a savage drunk we should have killed them all when we had the chance" is typical to hear in the kitchen around dinner tables during family re-unions and summer BBQs).

If natives were a sizable population the issues concerning them and their place in our European transplant of a society would be daily front page news. Case studies: Southern and Eastern Africa, the epitome of failed colonization settlement attempts. If they could not be heard through politics, they would be heard through violence.


Central and upper South America are also good case studies of European transplant civilization meeting indigenous civilizations on demographically similar terms. Even there, talk of integration has been going on for hundreds of years. Yet it never happened and the natives simply began voting in their own people, something demographically possible (Evo Morales, Chavez). Mind you, take a look at wiki and you notice most of these nations are made up of Mestizo (Mix Euro and Native) and most of their white populations don't make up more than 30%.

Ultimately, unless natives demographically challenged the mainstream they will always be treated as second class citizens. Perhaps the natives here can learn from the blacks down south, vote always, vote in a block, and when you vote, hold the party you voted for accountable.

Currently Canada's population is evenly divided between cons and libs. Like Malcolm X's speech, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BYVv4LY_KQ if they can rally around a political party, they can push any election in a direction that they choose to, thus creating a system where without their votes, certain parties would not be in power. From there they can build political clout for the long term.

Without a unified vision, natives will remain where they are.

[BeaverFever]

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

DVC185 DVC185:

Well there Mr Bmada, I suppose your point of view is based on how far north of the 401 you've been....

I grew up in Northern Ontario and Quebec and have seen firsthand their problems but my mother just said they were "people with difficulties." Once I started raising my own little son of a b....um...darlings, I have dragged them through Labrador, Alberta and the Northwest Territories.

So, the perspective.....

I have never ever seen firemen and paramedics chipping a drunk and frozen whiteman off of the sidewalk in February. I have never ever been forced to search for a three year old white baby dressed in a diaper and t-shirt in Decemember. And I have never ever pulled a whiteman out of the water who went through the ice a couple of months ago. There are a lot of things I have never ever done involving a whiteman (or black or yellow or any other colour) but for some reason, I have had to partake in ugly and generally doomed undertakings involving that amazing steward of the land - the Canadian Native.

I like to think I'm pretty normal in my dealings with people and respectful when dealing with the black cabbie, the Chinese cook, the Filipino cleaner or the guy behind the counter at Mac's Milk who always smiles and says "Good Morning." I do not base my opinion of an entire people on a sole incident or a TV show but real interaction over many years. And unfortunately, the majority of those are negative experiences.

Mr Bmada, if we are in conversation and I say something regarding Natives, I am basing it on 5 decades of experience. If you find it offensive or racist, tough.

So, are you being too politically correct or am I being racist? Who gives a shit...let's just agree to disagree on our opinion of Natives. You would never ever get an apology out of me!!

You've just described a typical South African slumdweller with a Canadian spin.

It's something to do with being conquered.

If the indigenous people aren't numerous enough to scare (usually through violence and political pressure) the establishment they will wither away culturally.

Aborigines in Australia, Native Canadians and American Natives all share almost the same social issues (drugs, delinquency, lack of employment, alcohol abuse and so on) yet they are so different genetically (especially Aborigines).

Rhodesians (Zimbabweans), South Africans, Namibians used sheer African brute force and numbers to scare European colonists into regression and are not culturally withering. Their "native" culture is slowly returning.


Ultimately demographics play a role in perception. In America natives aren't really discussed because they're such a tiny minority. In Canada they constitute 3% of the population, which in some communities it can be enough to cause a stir. In both cases there are calls to for them to integrate. Amusing but unfruitful, the establishment doesn't want them to integrate. Those are sweet words but bear no weight.

The issue is thrown into the backburner because natives in these countries don't have the demographics to shift the political scene, integration is impossible as discrimination is still to powerful (I have seen it on a regular basis in Northern Ontario - "the native is a savage drunk we should have killed them all when we had the chance" is typical to hear in the kitchen around dinner tables during family re-unions and summer BBQs).

If natives were a sizable population the issues concerning them and their place in our European transplant of a society would be daily front page news. Case studies: Southern and Eastern Africa, the epitome of failed colonization settlement attempts. If they could not be heard through politics, they would be heard through violence.


Central and upper South America are also good case studies of European transplant civilization meeting indigenous civilizations on demographically similar terms. Even there, talk of integration has been going on for hundreds of years. Yet it never happened and the natives simply began voting in their own people, something demographically possible (Evo Morales, Chavez). Mind you, take a look at wiki and you notice most of these nations are made up of Mestizo (Mix Euro and Native) and most of their white populations don't make up more than 30%.

Ultimately, unless natives demographically challenged the mainstream they will always be treated as second class citizens. Perhaps the natives here can learn from the blacks down south, vote always, vote in a block, and when you vote, hold the party you voted for accountable.

Currently Canada's population is evenly divided between cons and libs. Like Malcolm X's speech, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BYVv4LY_KQ if they can rally around a political party, they can push any election in a direction that they choose to, thus creating a system where without their votes, certain parties would not be in power. From there they can build political clout for the long term.

Without a unified vision, natives will remain where they are.

[Gunnair]

Bmada Bmada:

DVC185 DVC185:

Well there Mr Bmada, I suppose your point of view is based on how far north of the 401 you've been....

I grew up in Northern Ontario and Quebec and have seen firsthand their problems but my mother just said they were "people with difficulties." Once I started raising my own little son of a b....um...darlings, I have dragged them through Labrador, Alberta and the Northwest Territories.

So, the perspective.....

I have never ever seen firemen and paramedics chipping a drunk and frozen whiteman off of the sidewalk in February. I have never ever been forced to search for a three year old white baby dressed in a diaper and t-shirt in Decemember. And I have never ever pulled a whiteman out of the water who went through the ice a couple of months ago. There are a lot of things I have never ever done involving a whiteman (or black or yellow or any other colour) but for some reason, I have had to partake in ugly and generally doomed undertakings involving that amazing steward of the land - the Canadian Native.

I like to think I'm pretty normal in my dealings with people and respectful when dealing with the black cabbie, the Chinese cook, the Filipino cleaner or the guy behind the counter at Mac's Milk who always smiles and says "Good Morning." I do not base my opinion of an entire people on a sole incident or a TV show but real interaction over many years. And unfortunately, the majority of those are negative experiences.

Mr Bmada, if we are in conversation and I say something regarding Natives, I am basing it on 5 decades of experience. If you find it offensive or racist, tough.

So, are you being too politically correct or am I being racist? Who gives a shit...let's just agree to disagree on our opinion of Natives. You would never ever get an apology out of me!!

that's the thing, if we were in a conversation, it's just me and you. This is done on a public forum, where anyone can read it, when you make a blanket statement of racism in a public forum don't you think an apology is required?

Frankly...

Grow up, it's the internet. Try not to consider this thing reality.

[OnTheIce]

Bmada Bmada:

no, i would prefer an apology and a retraction of the statement. Anything blatantly racist is offensive. It's not like I know the person in question, that's why it deserves an apology in my opinion. If I knew the person I might be more willing to give more leeway, but this was a public forum where anyone can read the racist statement.

Don't agree at all.

Every racial group has their problems and like the poster said, certain groups earn their stereotype over decades of repeating the same things over and over again.

If some child was molested here in Ontario, the police and the public would be looking for a middle-aged white man as it's very, very common for these cases to involve this type of person. This is generally accepted as the person being "profiled" is white.

In Toronto, we have a real black-on-black crime with young black men killing eachother on a weekly basis. Is it a race issue? Yes. Is it a community issue? Yes.

However, when a black activist from New York comes up to Toronto to address a problem right in our faces, he's labeled a racist by the black community and run out of the country.

The moral of the story is, if you continue to bury your head in the sand about problems facing your community, don't expect things to change about how people perceive you....whatever colour or race you may be.

[Gunnair]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Bmada Bmada:

no, i would prefer an apology and a retraction of the statement. Anything blatantly racist is offensive. It's not like I know the person in question, that's why it deserves an apology in my opinion. If I knew the person I might be more willing to give more leeway, but this was a public forum where anyone can read the racist statement.

Don't agree at all.

Every racial group has their problems and like the poster said, certain groups earn their stereotype over decades of repeating the same things over and over again.

If some child was molested here in Ontario, the police and the public would be looking for a middle-aged white man as it's very, very common for these cases to involve this type of person. This is generally accepted as the person being "profiled" is white.

In Toronto, we have a real black-on-black crime with young black men killing eachother on a weekly basis. Is it a race issue? Yes. Is it a community issue? Yes.

However, when a black activist from New York comes up to Toronto to address a problem right in our faces, he's labeled a racist by the black community and run out of the country.

The moral of the story is, if you continue to bury your head in the sand about problems facing your community, don't expect things to change about how people perceive you....whatever colour or race you may be.

Agreed. Odd how no one has an issue with all of the sterotypes attributed to the 'white man' though I doubt there are many genocidal conquerors on this forum...

[ShepherdsDog]

I worked up north and saw plenty of drunk natives in the school(had to physically toss some out in fact), passed out on the road and in the holding cells at the local RCMP detachment. The other 90% of the population got on with their lives as best as they could like anyone else, anywhere else.

In some communities, the numbers are slightly higher and in others lower.

Here in Taiwan the same issues also exist within their own indigenous populations in the isolated mountain villages/reservations they occupy. The Han have been here since the 13th or 14th century(which gives them a few centuries on us being in a new land), and there is still a problem of image and understanding between them and the earlier inhabitants.

[CommanderSock]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

I worked up north and saw plenty of drunk natives in the school(had to physically toss some out in fact), passed out on the road and in the holding cells at the local RCMP detachment. The other 90% of the population got on with their lives as best as they could like anyone else, anywhere else.

In some communities, the numbers are slightly higher and in others lower.

Here in Taiwan the same issues also exist within their own indigenous populations in the isolated mountain villages/reservations they occupy. The Han have been here since the 13th or 14th century(which gives them a few centuries on us being in a new land), and there is still a problem of image and understanding between them and the earlier inhabitants.

The Han's views on race are more extreme than those of Nordic Euros.


They've got quite a few historic instances of being whipped into a frenzy when they aren't on top of the social ladder or their women are involved in relations with men from other races.

Nanjing anti-African protests ring a bell. So do constant skirmishes with Uighurs over women and culture.

[ShepherdsDog]

Many of them believe in pseudo scientific theories, such as the idea that they evolved from a seperate group of homo erectus residing in eastern Asia, unlike the rest of humanity that evolved from h. erectus in Africa.

[CommanderSock]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

Many of them believe in pseudo scientific theories, such as the idea that they evolved from a seperate group of homo erectus residing in eastern Asia, unlike the rest of humanity that evolved from h. erectus in Africa.

I know. They've been trying to prove it recently. A few scientific papers have been released from China on the subject. Quite popular with race supremacists.

I don't think it will bode well in the long term. Not for them, not for their new African "trade partners", and probably not for us.

[ShepherdsDog]

When ever some of them bring this up, I point out that we(the rest of humanity) evolved from Homo sapiens heidelbergensis, that evolved from Homo erectus, making us a step up on them. They won't even accept DNA evidence(most Western educated Taiwanese do though) ....gods forbid that they originated in ......Africa .

[CommanderSock]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

When ever some of them bring this up, I point out that we(the rest of humanity) evolved from Homo sapiens heidelbergensis, that evolved from Homo erectus, making us a step up on them. They won't even accept DNA evidence(most Western educated Taiwanese do though) ....gods forbid that they originated in ......Africa .

I digress...however...


Nationalism is big in communist countries due to the restriction of information. There are now 2 solid generations of Chinese who've grown under the CCP. Mix this with racial fantasies from a thousand years ago and we have trouble.

I expect these sorts of issues will become worse over time.

Dictatorial regimes are society's make-up set. They can hide even the deepest blemishes.

As the iron curtain was raised in 1990 over the Eastern bloc, how evident it became that the countries that pointed a finger at America and its recorded treatment of blacks were the last to cast stones.

Stalin's genocide alone killed 30+ million people, many of whom (surprise surprise) were Turkic, Eskimos (Chuckhis), Koreans, Tatars and other ethnic minorities.

With China's flow of information currently, I doubt in our lifetime, we will see how deep the blemishes actually go.

As for Taiwan, S. Korea and Japan, at least they can deal openly with their issues...well...maybe not...

[CanadianJeff]

I hate to be the doomsday prophit but I seriously worry that at some point we will have to go to war with china.

We should have stopped trading with these dictators long long ago and taken the moral ground over the "profit at any cost" ground.

Now we are the ones feeding an oppressive government of the east that has more people then most of us would ever care to count and has nuclear bombs. It could end up being some very scary moments if they ever get a leader in government like Hitler who decides the Chinese people are a superior race that needs more room to grow.

Scary stuff.

[andyt]

CanadianJeff CanadianJeff:

I hate to be the doomsday prophit but I seriously worry that at some point we will have to go to war with china.

We should have stopped trading with these dictators long long ago and taken the moral ground over the "profit at any cost" ground.

Now we are the ones feeding an oppressive government of the east that has more people then most of us would ever care to count and has nuclear bombs. It could end up being some very scary moments if they ever get a leader in government like Hitler who decides the Chinese people are a superior race that needs more room to grow.

Scary stuff.

If we go to war with China, we'll have our asses handed to us pretty quick. I'm sure a large number of "Chinese-Canadians" would quickly drop the Canadian part and cleave to their being Chinese.

If by we you mean the US, and you're thinking about a full out war, that would still not be good to our asses. Fallout doesn't respect borders. Much more likely might be a series of proxy wars, as with US vs Russia. Except the US ain't the big dog anymore. It can't afford pax Americana. China 1, America 0, I'm afraid.