[Yogi]

0:

Gas prices.jpg [ 113.61 KiB | Viewed 341 times ]

Even though, here in the Edmonton area, we have the lowest gas prices in Canada,we should be boasting the lowest gasoline prices in the world. That is never going to happen though, because none of our levels of govt have the balls to force the issue. I mean, really, would the price of gasoline concern you at all if your gasoline costs were paid for by someone else?

Personally, I would be ok with the price per litre being no more than 1% of the barrel price, which by yesterdays pricing would put the cost at the pump at $.093/l.

Never going to happen though when one of the 'smaller players' are posting profits of $181,000,000 for the first quarter of 2011!

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2011/05/13/c ... ion-profit

They are all laughing all the way to the bank!

[Brenda]

Isn't it funny, that when the price of a barrel goes up, the price of a liter at the pump goes up at the same moment, but when the price of a barrel goes down, the price at the pump does not?

[dino_bobba_renno]

I don't disagree with you but a good chuck of the price of gas consists of taxes. That's even demonstrated in the graphic you posted (the different pricing between provinces). According to that same graphic what we pay as compared to other nations isn't all that bad either when you take into account the taxes built into our prices.

[Brenda]

I just checked what the Dutchies pay (including taxes, because we include taxes in all our prices). It is Euro 1.74, which is $2.40.

[dino_bobba_renno]

Looking to the government to fix gas prices is comparable to looking to them to fix gambling and smoking addition problems.

[andyt]

Yogi Yogi:

Even though, here in the Edmonton area, we have the lowest gas prices in Canada,we should be boasting the lowest gasoline prices in the world. That is never going to happen though, because none of our levels of govt have the balls to force the issue. I mean, really, would the price of gasoline concern you at all if your gasoline costs were paid for by someone else?

Personally, I would be ok with the price per litre being no more than 1% of the barrel price, which by yesterdays pricing would put the cost at the pump at $.093/l.

Never going to happen though when one of the 'smaller players' are posting profits of $181,000,000 for the first quarter of 2011!

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2011/05/13/c ... ion-profit

They are all laughing all the way to the bank!

Wow, what a commie you are, intervening in the market place and all. You don't understand business at all, do you? Iran and Venezuela have very very low gas prices. Do you think we should model ourselves after them?

I didn't know that gas was sold by the barrel - or do you mean the oil price per barrel? 1% on top of a barrel of oil to produce for refining and transportation and retail costs, is that even feasible?

$1:

In 2007, taxes in Canada represented, on average, 32% of the pump price.

Say $1.40 a liter = 45 cents in taxes = 95 cents/liter for gas cost, right at the amount you suggested. Don't see the problem here. Would you rather pay those gas taxes as income tax instead? Or raise the HST to 20% or whatever it would take.

It's so funny to see die hard free market conservatives turn into raving socialists as soon as gas is involved. Fuck the low wage earners, the market should determine their wages, but OMG gas is costing me more, the govt should do something.

[Yogi]

andyt andyt:

Yogi Yogi:

Even though, here in the Edmonton area, we have the lowest gas prices in Canada,we should be boasting the lowest gasoline prices in the world. That is never going to happen though, because none of our levels of govt have the balls to force the issue. I mean, really, would the price of gasoline concern you at all if your gasoline costs were paid for by someone else?

Personally, I would be ok with the price per litre being no more than 1% of the barrel price, which by yesterdays pricing would put the cost at the pump at $.093/l.

Never going to happen though when one of the 'smaller players' are posting profits of $181,000,000 for the first quarter of 2011!

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2011/05/13/c ... ion-profit

They are all laughing all the way to the bank!

Wow, what a commie you are, intervening in the market place and all. You don't understand business at all, do you? Iran and Venezuela have very very low gas prices. Do you think we should model ourselves after them?

I didn't know that gas was sold by the barrel - or do you mean the oil price per barrel? 1% on top of a barrel of oil to produce for refining and transportation and retail costs, is that even feasible?

$1:

In 2007, taxes in Canada represented, on average, 32% of the pump price.

Say $1.40 a liter = 45 cents in taxes = 95 cents/liter for gas cost, right at the amount you suggested. Don't see the problem here. Would you rather pay those gas taxes as income tax instead? Or raise the HST to 20% or whatever it would take.

It's so funny to see die hard free market conservatives turn into raving socialists as soon as gas is involved. Fuck the low wage earners, the market should determine their wages, but OMG gas is costing me more, the govt should do something.

Pull your head out of your ass and grab a fresh breathof air! We pay the prices we do simply for 2 reasons.

The govt is virtually giving the oil to the companies by way of rock-bottom royalties.
And taxing the shit out of consumers who really have no choice in the matter ( and actually really do OWN the resources).
Petroleum products are a necessity in todays world. Not everyone can do their job via bicycle!
If the oil co.s were paying a fair royalty, then we wouldn't be forced to pay the taxes that we do on an essential commodity.

[andyt]

I agree about getting more royalties. That's up to Alberta, and lots of Albertans have told me on this forum that the royalties are just fine, we don't want to scare off the gas companies. I say we should be more like the Norwegians - oil is a national resource, is heavily taxed and the state owns a good chunk of the production system and invests the money for the benefit of all Norwegians, because they know the oil will run out some day. As will ours.

Taxes have to come from somewhere - if you pay less gas tax but more income tax, how are you any further ahead? Consumption taxes are touted as a better form of taxation than income tax. And, if you're running a business, you can deduct the cost of the gas and lessen the expense that way.

Of course petroleum products are necessary. That's why all those Asians want to start using them too, at the same rate we do. So petroleum products will also get scarecer and scarecer, and price go nowhere but up. Get used to it, learn how to deal. You make a good buck, not like you have to balance eating vs driving to work. Just cut back on some non-essentials.

It's so funny to see the hard asses show no sympathy for the working poor who really do have to consider food vs rent vs transportation, but winge to the high heavens 'cause it costs them a little more to fill up their truck. Oh! The humanity!

[Yogi]

andyt andyt:

I agree about getting more royalties. That's up to Alberta, and lots of Albertans have told me on this forum that the royalties are just fine, we don't want to scare off the gas companies. I say we should be more like the Norwegians - oil is a national resource, is heavily taxed and the state owns a good chunk of the production system and invests the money for the benefit of all Norwegians, because they know the oil will run out some day. As will ours.

Taxes have to come from somewhere - if you pay less gas tax but more income tax, how are you any further ahead? Consumption taxes are touted as a better form of taxation than income tax. And, if you're running a business, you can deduct the cost of the gas and lessen the expense that way.

Of course petroleum products are necessary. That's why all those Asians want to start using them too, at the same rate we do. So petroleum products will also get scarecer and scarecer, and price go nowhere but up. Get used to it, learn how to deal. You make a good buck, not like you have to balance eating vs driving to work. Just cut back on some non-essentials.

It's so funny to see the hard asses show no sympathy for the working poor who really do have to consider food vs rent vs transportation, but winge to the high heavens 'cause it costs them a little more to fill up their truck. Oh! The humanity!

Where the hell are they going to go drill for oil, Quebec, perhaps!

Higher royalties= less taxes!

[RUEZ]

andyt andyt:

It's so funny to see the hard asses show no sympathy for the working poor who really do have to consider food vs rent vs transportation, but winge to the high heavens 'cause it costs them a little more to fill up their truck. Oh! The humanity!

Actually, poor people already pay very little income tax. So lowering income tax and raising consumption tax would actually hurt them more.

[Proculation]

Exxon paid more in taxes (37$B) than more than half the lower income population in the US did (28$B) in 2008 (which was a bad year). Not that bad.

[Lemmy]

RUEZ RUEZ:

Actually, poor people already pay very little income tax. So lowering income tax and raising consumption tax would actually hurt them more.

Yes, and since poor people have near zero marginal propensity to save (ie, they spend virtually every nickel they earn), they're burdened with the highest incidence of any group on consumption and excise taxes.

[andyt]

Lemmy Lemmy:

RUEZ RUEZ:

Actually, poor people already pay very little income tax. So lowering income tax and raising consumption tax would actually hurt them more.

Yes, and since poor people have near zero marginal propensity to save (ie, they spend virtually every nickel they earn), they're burdened with the highest incidence of any group on consumption and excise taxes.

And yet Economists tell us that consumption taxes are the way to go. Go figure. Guess the poor don't figure in their calculations. I believe they say the poor also spend less, so pay less taxes,'cause they don't have much to spend. And if you're poor you probably can't afford a car anyways.

Easy solution - Earned income tax credit or raise min wages so that the poor have more money in their pockets. Problem solved, since gas prices certainly ain't going down in the long run.

Seems a funny time to worry about the poor, Lemmy, since you said you had no interest in alleviating poverty. Guess it's different if alleviating poverty also puts gas in your tank. Funny how when it hurts the middle class a little bit in higher gas prices, all of a sudden the concern for the poor comes out. Otherwise, not so much.

[Choban]

Notice, Iran, The Saudis, Libya, wayyyy cheaper. Even Russia is still under a buck/liter

[Brenda]

Guess it's time to move to Venezuela...