[z_whalen]

It's a sad day when our military needs to sustain itself on donations. Canadians need to realize that the deterioration of our countries military is an urgent problem. Election after election this issue is underplayed, so next time around let's make sure people know that Canada's forces have been stripped to the bone. Seriously, if we keep neglecting our military, we are going to lose them. I'm sounding desperate here, but our military is on the brink of collapse. <br /> <br />I would like to see the NDP really get behind increased military funding and rebuilding our forces. I don't think this would damage their left wing base, and I'm sure it would win them some more votes come the next election. We need more people out there advocating for a stronger and independent military for Canada, and I think the left needs to wake up and make this part of their platform.

[Reverend Blair]

If the NDP came up with a plan based on peacekeeping and guarding our sovereignty and got it out there I'm sure it would bring in some votes, Zachary. Getting it out there is likely the hardest part though...nobody wants to say it and the media doesn't want to hear it. Not from the NDP, it doesn't fit the stereotype. <br /> <br />I don't know if it is possible to donate to specific parts of the government, Kevin. I know you can donate to general revenues and I think you can do the same for debt payments, but donating to a specific department is another matter. It's pretty darned sad that things are looking desperate enough that you thought of it though. <br /> <br /> <br /> <br />

[Marcarc]

The problem with the military is pretty systemic, and mirrors what is going on in our larger society- take a look at the pay discrepency between new recruits and those who have been in the forces awhile. My cousin has been in the military for ten years, had only a high school education, isn't even an officer (though that's not important) and he makes 65,000 per year plus has his housing subsidized. While I would agree that you can't put a price on giving your life for your country, he has only done one tour of duty overseas for six months, the rest of the time he has spent in Canada. Just throwing money at the military is not going to help.

[Perturbed]

[QUOTE BY= Marcarc] The problem with the military is pretty systemic, and mirrors what is going on in our larger society- take a look at the pay discrepency between new recruits and those who have been in the forces awhile. My cousin has been in the military for ten years, had only a high school education, isn't even an officer (though that's not important) and he makes 65,000 per year plus has his housing subsidized. While I would agree that you can't put a price on giving your life for your country, he has only done one tour of duty overseas for six months, the rest of the time he has spent in Canada. Just throwing money at the military is not going to help.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br /> <br />Judging by how military invasions are usually political, and a long time in coming, I don't think that throwing more money at the Canadian military is possible until we fix our banking system and create a different foreign policy. We do spend a lot per capita, just not a lot per GDP.......of course we should replace the aging equipment we do have, but honestly, being U.S. poodle takes little new money.

[KevinGagnon]

Maybe the real problem is politicians who tell us about the underfunded military, or using the U.S as a bench mark. If we use Europe as a bench mark, does that still leave Canada way behind.

How much does the U.S spend on military. Is it like 90% or something lol.

I don't know if we are way behind Europe, but if we are it should be Europe that we should use as a bench mark since they have a peacekeeping military as well.

Kevin

[Marcarc]

I agree with Perturbed (I think that's a first<img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/smile.gif' alt='Smile'> However, this introduces a much larger issue. Canada's role in NORAD, NATO, and other organizations has never been manpower. The states wanted our 'moral support' but knew in essence we couldn't provide much more support than we did (which was more than most of the coalitions). We did our part in Kosovo and are doing it as well in Haiti, our position is one where if you study it you will note that our military is essentially under american jurisdiction in the field. <br /> As a resource supplier (Sudbury actually had bunkers built because it was on the axis 'hit list' because of its mining during world war 2) under NAFTA Canada is now the eighth largest weapons exporter in the world-which is impressive considering our size. This, of course, is all publicly subsidized. Canada's nuclear expertise and poor judgement has basically ensured that virtually any country can produce nuclear arms. <br /> Of course none of this has anything to do with 'us', we can no more change government policy than we can get rid of Paul Martin if we wanted to. It's ironic that although our corporations produce some of the most advanced pieces of machinery in the world, none of it is supplied to our own military, much like our oil and gas industries. I once met an Iraqi taxi driver who was telling me that during the eighties in Iraq, gas was 5 cents a litre-welcome to global capitalism!

[Perturbed]

[QUOTE BY= KevinGagnon] Maybe the real problem is politicians who tell us about the underfunded military, or using the U.S as a bench mark. If we use Europe as a bench mark, does that still leave Canada way behind. <br /> <br />How much does the U.S spend on military. Is it like 90% or something lol. <br /> <br />I don't know if we are way behind Europe, but if we are it should be Europe that we should use as a bench mark since they have a peacekeeping military as well. <br /> <br />Kevin[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />I think using Europe as a benchmark is unfair. They may spend more per GDP, but they are a rising world power with their co-operative militaries. They are more developed, better equipped with infrastructure. As the U.S. weakens I think we'll see Europe build uo their military, along with China and Rusia if they can afford to.

[Perturbed]

[QUOTE BY= Marcarc] I agree with Perturbed (I think that's a first<img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/smile.gif' alt='Smile'> However, this introduces a much larger issue. Canada's role in NORAD, NATO, and other organizations has never been manpower. The states wanted our 'moral support' but knew in essence we couldn't provide much more support than we did (which was more than most of the coalitions). We did our part in Kosovo and are doing it as well in Haiti, our position is one where if you study it you will note that our military is essentially under american jurisdiction in the field. <br /> As a resource supplier (Sudbury actually had bunkers built because it was on the axis 'hit list' because of its mining during world war 2) under NAFTA Canada is now the eighth largest weapons exporter in the world-which is impressive considering our size. This, of course, is all publicly subsidized. Canada's nuclear expertise and poor judgement has basically ensured that virtually any country can produce nuclear arms. <br /> Of course none of this has anything to do with 'us', we can no more change government policy than we can get rid of Paul Martin if we wanted to. It's ironic that although our corporations produce some of the most advanced pieces of machinery in the world, none of it is supplied to our own military, much like our oil and gas industries. I once met an Iraqi taxi driver who was telling me that during the eighties in Iraq, gas was 5 cents a litre-welcome to global capitalism![/QUOTE] <br /> <br />That's the thing, and many of those defence corporations are foreign-owned. <br /> <br />When it comes to nuclear arms, I can't help but think that spreading them around was no accidnet. People aren't stupid, they know what uranium can be used for.......it's also nice to see our political elites send CANDU reactors to China, to help prop up the world's low-wage machine.

[Streaker]

Reverend Blair Reverend Blair:

If the NDP came up with a plan based on peacekeeping and guarding our sovereignty and got it out there I'm sure it would bring in some votes, Zachary. Getting it out there is likely the hardest part though...nobody wants to say it and the media doesn't want to hear it. Not from the NDP, it doesn't fit the stereotype.

Exactly. The NDP isn't anti-military, but might want to change defence priorities to ones different than those currently embraced by the military establishment, and there's the rub.

[RUEZ]

Are you just going to necro all day?

[Streaker]

My comment was on topic - unlike yours.

[Blue_Nose]

That's really relevant in a 3-year-old thread.

[Streaker]

I don't see the harm in necroing, and at any rate my post was on topic. What bothers you so much about it?