[Ashton-q]

hi, well

i guess i'll start this off with an introduction so my motives are clear.
i'm a part of the us army. I dont like it. I actually despise and regret this move I made in my life. Here's why. I was naive at the time I signed the dotted line. I was told i could be a linguist, to translate so i could be a teacher or go to school to be one when i got out. I went to the recruiting office, "that job is for people re-enlisting, or who have been in the army and want to change jobs at the end of their contract." He said the infantry gets you promoted the fastest and can get you a better chance of landing that job when my time to reenlist comes up. I said I didn't want to go to this war, he said it was a risk we all take, but I can send you to the 82nd, by the time you're out of basic training, they'll just be coming back so you wont have to worry.

In basic training, I personally witnessed hordes of brainwashings. The army cadences we sung were sick and horrifying. Well, they would be to a normal person, to us, we've been slowly built to the point of ignorance. I however, did not fall for this trap. Ignorance is bliss, but that takes the meaning of life away, and gives lots you lots of openings for regrets. I was tought to fight dirty, that when we came into a house, not to be seen or heard and to shoot a hostile on sight, 2 in the chest, one in the head. Out of all our training, they did not train us to shoot in a nonvital area, not once was I told to shoot them in the leg. I asked the Drill Sergeant I was with this and he said very calmly, "So if you shoot them in the leg, it will slow your element down, and you're telling me you'd rather risk the lives of your friends so you won't have to kill them?" We never backtalked our chain of command, it's taboo. But it's the right thing to do, isn't it? Well, I'm not going to war, right, the recruiter said I was gonna goto Ft. Bragg..... yeah right.

So here I am in Ft. Stewart, half of the people that have been over there once are excited and want to take more pictures of people they killed. They wanna get more comfirmed kills. I'm about to deploy in 2 weeks, my friends, who aren't in the army, who listened to what I have to say is get the fuck out. I tried a couple of months ago, they wouldn't let me. I told em I want out, I dont care what kind of discharge I get, nope. They don't want the "embarrassment" of a dishonorable dischargee to leave their company or unit. So I can't get out in normal ways, and with 2 short weeks left before deployment, here I am searching for alternatives.

As I look through the internet, I've found more news about the US than anywhere, all they say on the news here is "us soldiers" or "Pro coalition forces" "were killed in a car bomb today". Period. That's it. You here more news about a small time murderer than a neighboring nation going through a crisis of what to do about the US. I'm sure many of you have heard of Jeremy Hinzman, the guy who deserted the army and went to Toronto, Canada. They have lots of support, and hate, from home.

Desertion isn't that easy thing to do. I have reasons to leave, I didn't know what I was getting into, I believed the recruiters lies as they poured out of his mouth. I guarantee you 100% of all soldiers in the US will tell you that all the recruiters in the army LIE!

So you can say, why did you sign the dotted line? Cause they lied to us, gave us false information. Period. I just wanted to goto college and learn a language while i'm at it. Here I am, not where I want to be, not doing what I want to do, the exact oppossite of what I asked for, am I going to war? I've been told by several close friends to desert, like Jeremy Hinzman did. I've been thinking about it. Truth is, I might actually go. I know noone up there, don't know anything about the place actually, other than the last 2 days straight of researching. I was hoping maybe you could give me input, as to how it would be for me, since you represent canada in it's fullest, and quite honest also.

Thanks

[Robair]

Sooo.... at the time you signed up, Dubya had already gone to war?

[Tonto]

......Ashto-q.....my advice is....desert and go awol.....but stay in the US.....when they catch you you will serve time in the brig but you will be alive...you will be discharged dishonourably and still be in the US....Once you come to Canada it will be years before you can enter the US and you will be despised and spit on....Do like Cassius Clay did during the draft in the Vietnam era...believe me you wont be sorry....your still young enough to do so.....take care mate..

[Richard]

You really think that would work in this day and age Tonto? I would expect the hush hush and first plane out.

[RoyalHighlander]

Im not sure I like this post BUT I will leave it open for now...All I can say is do what your heart tells you to do, but... be prepeared to suffer the consequences of your actions....

[figfarmer]

fragging a few officers?

[seismic_snap]

Dood.. of course they're gonna feed you a load about what great options the army opens. If they tell u during the enlistment process that you'll be tired, miserable, putting up w/ administrative BS, and probably end up in a box, who in their right mind would sign up??
On the other hand, don't kick yourself over it... there are some good points to come out of it.. For example, it's a forum to make contacts.. you look at some of the leaders of todays world.. almost all of them have either served in the military or have strong military ties. Play your cards right, make some contacts, get away from the line and join stars and stripes or something. Anyone who says that getting shipped off to a foreign country to dodge bullets, diffuse bombs, or dig up mines is a great career move is full of shit...
On the bright side... at least you get paid to do it.. some people don't get shit for this kind of work.
Yeah, they lied to you... attempted to brainwash you... and will probably try to screw you over (sorry for the pessimism.. but I do have a point).. but you have what.. 2 years? If you go out, acting like a cowboy trying to kill people to get pictures, then you'll probably end up in a michael moore movie, fragged and humiliated.
If I had to give someone advice about the army, here is it... play the game, make friends in high places, and work your ass off to get something administrative (stores clerk even).. yeah, it's boring, but it'll keep you away from harms way.
If all else fails... go to newfoundland, they'll never look for you there )

[canadian1971]

listen to the canadian soldier there bro...do what your heart tells u 2

[Ashton-q]

thanks for the replies.

just feedback to clarify a couple of things, knowing someone higher up is good, but that's almost impossible for a lower ranked person to achieve unless it's a relative, and they really can't do much for you. Second, it's worth it I think to desert, I've been doing some research and stuff about this since I last posted, local and foreign information has made impacts on the move. There is a way for me to do this without getting into major trouble.

First, the situation escalates; i've talked this over with several noncommissioned officers in a noncalant (sp?) way and took in information that it's very impossible for somebody to get out of the army unless they're missing limbs from a drunk driver pleading guilty in court. (a little exaggeratted, but not too much)
Second, the only time that it would be detrimental to return to the United States is clear, this information is grey and I have yet to confirm it with more sources, but if I were to return to my unit, after they have returned from deployment, then and only then I may be released of this "desertion" from my record, and after a couple of months of rejoining my ranks simply to get out, possibly longer, (will get paid though), I'd be able to walk away with a simple dishonorable discharge simply enough.
Third to these additions to my research, if this is true, then all will be good in the long run, as long as I dont get caught, and i'm not quite stupid when it comes to street smarts, thank god. I've already setup several contacts with friends I know and their friends who are willing to lend a hand, say getting a job working under the table and a cheap place to stay. Networking is the key to something like this, and it's paying off for me in the long run.
Fourth, when I do finish this process, if after any sequence of events I get a dishonorable discharge, I highly doubt other countries' job markets would give a milk fart as to whether or not this is on my record, as I wouldn't be in the states. My dreams and goals from before joining the army, and still today, lie outside this horrible country.
Fifth, I do plan on mooning everything and anything that says army on it on the way to canada, especially recruiting stations and military bases, doubt I'll see one though

edit: I'm pretty prepared, thanks RoyalHighlander

[weathered9]

i served in the National guard for almost three years it was the worst experience of all my life and i'm still deep in shit, i never had recruters lie to me much but i know it happens. most i know are very crooked people with no heart for people and total disregaurd for any human life, there is a time 4 war and peace but i hate the fact that people are "cashing in" on this killing spree, i would have gon awol if i was'nt discharged. When i was at fort caffe arkansas (hell on earth, as most places i've lived) i was pushed from my bunk by an E-4 who was jealous of me 4 what i still have no clue except he has tha spirit of tha devil not tha Father, but the fucked up thing is he pushed me out of my bunk while i was sleeping and had no reason to either, we were not in any arguments or conflicts, but i screamed at him later cause i was ticked that he did that to me, so he tells the 1st seargent (to get revenge) i tried to kill my self, Yeah fucking right i would've had to do it with the other soilders watching cause everything is guarded and our bunks were like 2 1/2 foot apart, he told tha first seargent that i tried to commit sucied the officer did not ask me but gave orders to the corporal to take me home, upon which having me in cuffs by the arkansas state police and go to a hospital and then a state hospital (nut house) and i still deal with the shit with my fucked up family everyday i'm moving back to columbus ohio soon and cant wait to be there if you live north in tha us or in canada be thankful

[Rosco]

First of all I have to ask, what the hell were you thinking? Why is it that Americans always seem to miss the obvious? If you weren't prepared to do what ground combat services are known for you shouldn't have signed up.

That said I wish you luck and hope you're able to make a decision that doesn't wreck your future. I live in Vancouver and know of a few folks here who are Vietnam era deserters who are living here illegally and they don't seem to live much better than street people.

[Rev_Blair]

If they are from the Vietnam era and living here illegally it's by choice, Rosco. During the Vietnam war all an American citizen had to do to gain landed immigrant status was ask for it at the border. That would enable them to work legally and eventually become citizens.

Things aren't that easy anymore. It is quite challenging to be granted landed immigrant status unless you are rich or have a job lined up in a specific, highly skilled, field.

That is all going to be changing again soon. We're desperately short of tradespeople. If you can do construction work you shouldn't have much trouble working under the table, Ashton. If you have some skills, you will probably be able to get started on getting landed immigrant status in the next year or so.

[smokinjoe]

Ashton if you decide that Ontario is where you are coming, Let me know Ill show you around. I think that if your life is in danger then you need to go. Run and run fast. Don't make a spectacale of it just run. Come to Canada and things will work out.

[Dan74]

I gotta be a jerk here and say to you Ashton that you got yourself into this mess.Take your medicine.If you were against this war than why would you join?
I mean you joined an army during war time.What did you think was gonna happen?
I wish you the best and hope you come home safe but this is not the same as Vietnam You were not drafted you signed up.
Best of luck to ya
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[Ashton-q]

easy responses to why i'm leaving

1.) they lied their asses off to me
2.) i'm not gonna fight for a war i dont believe in
3.) they're assholes
4.) they lied their asses off to me