[Motorcycleboy]

Why are we spending hundreds of millions of dollars and putting Canadian soldiers in harm's way to rescue a bunch of so-called "Canadians" in Lebanon?

These people are about as "Canadian" as the "Canadian" issue of Sports Illustrated!

$1:

Canadians to be evacuated later this week
Harper dismisses criticism

Published: Monday, July 17, 2006
Evacuations of Canadians in Lebanon could start later this week, Prime Minister Stephen Harper said Monday.

"We expect to be able to evacuate people by midweek. We're in line with the Americans and British on that and we are working very closely with them on evacuation," Harper said in his closing press conference as the Group of Eight leaders summit wrapped in Russia.

Harper was also dismissive of criticism that the government had acted too slowly in responding to plight of Canadians in Lebanon since the start of last week's military attacks by Israel.

An estimated 40,000 Canadians have been trapped in Lebanon since Israel began its attacks last week.

On Sunday, soon after hearing reports that seven Canadians were killed in air strikes in Lebanon, Foreign Affairs Minister Peter MacKay has said Canadians will be removed by ship and possibly helicopter.

A team of military planners has also been sent to Cyprus to co-ordinate the operation.

"We are securing commercial vessels and pre-positioning them off the coast of Lebanon," MacKay said in a written statement Sunday. "We are also working to secure safe passage for these vessels."

The government was scrambling to work out the details as it faced criticism that it should have acted faster instead of mulling over evacuation prospects over the weekend while several other countries went ahead and lined up transportation to remove their citizens from a region caught in a conflict between Hezbollah militants and Israeli military forces.

MacKay also advised Canadians in Lebanon to avoid open spaces, keep their passports nearby and avoid venturing to the Canadian embassy in Beirut in the wake of Israeli warplanes unleashing bombs on the capital and its suburbs.

He would not reveal where Ottawa intends to send the evacuees "for security reasons," but the Foreign Affairs website lists Cyprus as a likely prospect.

The former president of the Canadian Lebanese Cultural Association said the government should have moved faster in clearing its citizens out of Lebanon because it will now be a logistical nightmare since air and road passage are no longer options.

"They should have taken action earlier and maybe these lives would have been saved," said Khaled Hashem, an Ottawa resident who moved to Canada 31 years ago.

On Parliament Hill on Sunday, dozens of Lebanese Canadians called for a ceasefire and protested Prime Minister Stephen Harper's hardline stance against Lebanon. Harper said late last week that Israel had a right to defend itself and that its response to the kidnapping of two Israeli soldiers was "measured."

Killing children is not a "measured response," read one placard at the protest.

Albert Mansour, a Lebanese-Canadian who lives in Ottawa, said that he is disappointed that Canada appears to have shifted its position under Harper's rule.

"I really don't like what our prime minister said because it wasn't well-balanced," Mansour said.

"I have sympathy for the two Israelis who were kidnapped, but you don't hold a whole country hostage."

Mansour also said Ottawa has been slow to provide information about Canadians in Lebanon. He said it is impossible to get through to the Canadian government's public information line. He has been trying to find out about his good friend in Lebanon, who recently travelled to Beirut for a family wedding.

"The 1-800 number is useless, you can't get through on it," said Mansour.

© CanWest News Service 2006

While I disagree with the Harper's decision to evacuate them, I understand it. Much as I'd like to, in today's world, we can't just abandon Canadian citizens abroad, even if their claim to citizenship is suspect.

What really annoys me is the Liberals criticism that the government hasn't done enough! Are they fucking serious?

These people flee Lebanon as refugees, stay in Canada long enough to meet the citizenship requirements, then return there to open businesses, raise families, etc. Now that things have gone bad, they expect to wave their Canadian passports around and have other Canadians in Moose Jaw and St John's drop whatever we're doing and start fretting about our "fellow Canadians" in the war zone.

Screw that. These people are the Panamanian freighters of Canadian citizenship. They use this country's passport as nothing more than a flag of convienence. An ace in the hole to be played when an emergency strikes.

Let them find their own way back.

[Newfy]

I have to disagree with you on this one. Some people leave their home country because their work has sent them away to another country. Do they not have a right to be rescued and brought home in this sort of situation.

[Hardy]

Motorcycleboy Motorcycleboy:

Why are we spending hundreds of millions of dollars and putting Canadian soldiers in harm's way to rescue a bunch of so-called "Canadians" in Lebanon?

That price tag sounds awfully high to me, did you read it somewhere, or just pull it out of a hat?

Motorcycleboy Motorcycleboy:

These people are about as "Canadian" as the "Canadian" issue of Sports Illustrated!

I haven't seen any concrete information on the makeup of Canadian citizens resident in Lebanon. Do you have any data on this, or did you just pull it out of a hat, too?

[ridenrain]

Anything is grist for the Liberal mill. No event is too tragic or petty, as long as it can be used for their sad cause.
Jack Laytons pathetic cry to help Darfur, was a good example.

I also do not believe that we require our citizens to register when they go abroad, so we really never know how many are there. Such is the personal responsibility part that comes with freedom.

[Motorcycleboy]

Newfy Newfy:

I have to disagree with you on this one. Some people leave their home country because their work has sent them away to another country. Do they not have a right to be rescued and brought home in this sort of situation.

And I would have no problem with that either. If for example, some Canadians working for Encana needed assistance getting out of a war zone, I'd be all for it.

But the vast majority of those "Canadians" in Lebanon are Lebanese by birth or extraction and have decided to return there after satisfying their citizenship requirements here.

Those aren't real Canadians as far as I'm concerned. Those are "Canadians of Convienence", who use Canadian citizenship as nothing more than an insurance policy.

[Motorcycleboy]

$1:

Hardy
That price tag sounds awfully high to me, did you read it somewhere, or just pull it out of a hat?

I estimated it actually. Let's see. Half a dozen cruise ships chartered and waiting off the coast of Lebanon, several trips to Cyprus, a team of CF and Foreign Affairs personnel deployed to Cyprus, air fare to bring them home from there to Canada....

I would guess my estimate is fairly conservative. After all, chartering a cruise ship on short notice is a littler pricier than taking a water taxi from Bowen Island to the Lower Mainland. Wouldn't you agree?

$1:

Hardy:
I haven't seen any concrete information on the makeup of Canadian citizens resident in Lebanon. Do you have any data on this, or did you just pull it out of a hat, too?

Well let's see...

$1:

Seven Canadians reported dead in Israeli strikes against Lebanon

Michelle Lalonde in Montreal Janice Tibbetts in Ottawa and Matthew Fisher in Jerusalem, CanWest News Service

Published: Monday, July 17, 2006
The raging conflict in the Middle East claimed the lives of seven Canadians as the federal government scrambled Sunday to work out plans to evacuate citizens from Lebanon.

The Canadians visiting the country, all members of a Montreal family, were killed in the bombing of Aitaroun, a village in southern Lebanon Sunday, according to family members in Montreal, who said four children between the ages of one and eight were among the dead.

Family members in Montreal received the devastating news by cellphone while they were taking part in a demonstration against the Israeli attacks on Lebanon.

Weeping women, teenaged girls and children embraced each other on the sidewalk, while several young men called other family members on cellphones.

''My cousin just called me to say my father is dead, my mother is in hospital, two of my aunts, my uncle and his son and his grandson...they are all martyrs,'' said Hassan El-Akhras, 31.

Later, El-Akhras received another call from his cousin in Lebanon, confirming that his aunt Haniya Al-Akhras, his cousin's wife Amira Al-Akhras, 23, and their four children, Saja, Zeinab, Ahmad and Salam were dead.

Considering the victim's families heard about their deaths while attending an anti-Israel rally, would suggest to me that they've got some links to Lebanon.

Maybe that's just me though.

Hey, as soon as you ascertain that the Canadians in Lebanon actually consist of large numbers of backpackers from Weyburn Saskatchewan, you just let me know!

[Newfy]

Motorcycleboy Motorcycleboy:

Newfy Newfy:

I have to disagree with you on this one. Some people leave their home country because their work has sent them away to another country. Do they not have a right to be rescued and brought home in this sort of situation.

And I would have no problem with that either. If for example, some Canadians working for Encana needed assistance getting out of a war zone, I'd be all for it.

But the vast majority of those "Canadians" in Lebanon are Lebanese by birth or extraction and have decided to return there after satisfying their citizenship requirements here.

Those aren't real Canadians as far as I'm concerned. Those are "Canadians of Convienence", who use Canadian citizenship as nothing more than an insurance policy.

I see your point now and I would agree with your point on that one.

[grainfedprairieboy]

Newfy Newfy:

Motorcycleboy Motorcycleboy:

Newfy Newfy:

I have to disagree with you on this one. Some people leave their home country because their work has sent them away to another country. Do they not have a right to be rescued and brought home in this sort of situation.

And I would have no problem with that either. If for example, some Canadians working for Encana needed assistance getting out of a war zone, I'd be all for it.

But the vast majority of those "Canadians" in Lebanon are Lebanese by birth or extraction and have decided to return there after satisfying their citizenship requirements here.

Those aren't real Canadians as far as I'm concerned. Those are "Canadians of Convienence", who use Canadian citizenship as nothing more than an insurance policy.

I see your point now and I would agree with your point on that one.

You've got my support too.

[GunPlumber]

MCB,

It may interest you to know that 6 of the 8 CANADIANS KILLED BY THE ISRAELIS, were members of the same family and this was their first trip to Lebanon. Very racist of you to ASSume they held allegiance to any country but Canada. Or are you just trying to justify Israeli babarism? The father of this family, who fled the last Israeli war against Lebanon 26 years ago, was unable to go on the trip because he was busy running a successful pharmacy in Montreal. Maybe you can make a trip up there and explain to him how his murdered children weren't real Canadians?

By the way, protesting the genocidal behavior of an outlaw state, and our government's support for their latest atrocities, does not require you to be a citizen of that states latest victim. But it does require a conscience. Your lack of it explains why you're opposed to the protests.

[xerxes]

Just ignore him GunPlumber. In MCB's world, you're only Canadian if you're white.

[Hardy]

Motorcycleboy Motorcycleboy:

$1:

Hardy
That price tag sounds awfully high to me, did you read it somewhere, or just pull it out of a hat?

After all, chartering a cruise ship on short notice is a littler pricier than taking a water taxi from Bowen Island to the Lower Mainland. Wouldn't you agree?

The Americans are choosing that method, however,
"The Orient Queen can carry about 750 passengers for the approximate five-hour crossing from Beirut to Cyprus, according to Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman.

At least 8,000 of the estimated 25,000 American citizens in Lebanon registered with the American embassy prior to the war between Israel and the terrorist group Hezbollah. Several hundred have expressed interest in being evacuated."

So they will be getting all of the ones who have asked to be evacuated in one trip. Numbers of Canadians in Lebanon are similar, so it shouldn't take more than 2 trips (20 hours sailing time both ways) at most.

If our government pays over 10 million dollars (to make the minimum requisite "hundreds of millions") an hour to use a ship, then someone ought to be removed from office immediately.

Motorcycleboy Motorcycleboy:

$1:

Hardy:
I haven't seen any concrete information on the makeup of Canadian citizens resident in Lebanon. Do you have any data on this, or did you just pull it out of a hat, too?

Well let's see...

$1:

Seven Canadians reported dead in Israeli strikes against Lebanon

OK, so there we have a sampling of exactly one household, and one which won't need evacuation at that. I guess that makes the margin for error of your "survey" roughly infinite.

[Thematic-Device]

Motorcycleboy Motorcycleboy:

Newfy Newfy:

I have to disagree with you on this one. Some people leave their home country because their work has sent them away to another country. Do they not have a right to be rescued and brought home in this sort of situation.

And I would have no problem with that either. If for example, some Canadians working for Encana needed assistance getting out of a war zone, I'd be all for it.

But the vast majority of those "Canadians" in Lebanon are Lebanese by birth or extraction and have decided to return there after satisfying their citizenship requirements here.

So if someone comes to canada, and becomes a citizen, under no circumstances should they ever return home to visit friends or family?

$1:

Those aren't real Canadians as far as I'm concerned. Those are "Canadians of Convienence", who use Canadian citizenship as nothing more than an insurance policy.

Or canadians who were just going on vacation. Lebanon is a popular destination.

ridenrain ridenrain:

I also do not believe that we require our citizens to register when they go abroad, so we really never know how many are there. Such is the personal responsibility part that comes with freedom.

Canada doesn't require it, but canada has 16,000 registered.

[EyeBrock]

GunPlumber GunPlumber:

MCB,

It may interest you to know that 6 of the 8 CANADIANS KILLED BY THE ISRAELIS, were members of the same family and this was their first trip to Lebanon. Very racist of you to ASSume they held allegiance to any country but Canada. Or are you just trying to justify Israeli babarism? The father of this family, who fled the last Israeli war against Lebanon 26 years ago, was unable to go on the trip because he was busy running a successful pharmacy in Montreal. Maybe you can make a trip up there and explain to him how his murdered children weren't real Canadians?

By the way, protesting the genocidal behavior of an outlaw state, and our government's support for their latest atrocities, does not require you to be a citizen of that states latest victim. But it does require a conscience. Your lack of it explains why you're opposed to the protests.

Not too busy to go attend an anti-Israeli rally though eh?

[BartSimpson]

With 40,000 Canadians in Lebanon you shouldn't be rescuing them, you should be annexing them!

[EyeBrock]

Thematic-Device Thematic-Device:

Motorcycleboy Motorcycleboy:

Newfy Newfy:

I have to disagree with you on this one. Some people leave their home country because their work has sent them away to another country. Do they not have a right to be rescued and brought home in this sort of situation.

And I would have no problem with that either. If for example, some Canadians working for Encana needed assistance getting out of a war zone, I'd be all for it.

But the vast majority of those "Canadians" in Lebanon are Lebanese by birth or extraction and have decided to return there after satisfying their citizenship requirements here.

So if someone comes to canada, and becomes a citizen, under no circumstances should they ever return home to visit friends or family?

$1:

Those aren't real Canadians as far as I'm concerned. Those are "Canadians of Convienence", who use Canadian citizenship as nothing more than an insurance policy.

Or canadians who were just going on vacation. Lebanon is a popular destination.

ridenrain ridenrain:

I also do not believe that we require our citizens to register when they go abroad, so we really never know how many are there. Such is the personal responsibility part that comes with freedom.

Canada doesn't require it, but canada has 16,000 registered.

I’m not saying they should be banned from going back there but come on, Beirut isn’t exactly synonymous with a peaceful atmosphere, just as Lebanon isn’t exactly a model state of peaceful factions co-habiting in harmony.

The area that was bombed is well within Hezbollah territory.
Hezbollah have been conducting aggressive operations against Israel for the past few years.
The family who lost some many members in this tragic blunder were attending an anti-Israeli rally in Montreal.
These are people who are well aware of the situation yet they let their loved ones fly into this powder keg.

Further:

I think refugee claimants who go back to the country they alleged that they were fleeing from with a "well founded fear of persecution" and suddenly bugger off there for summer vacation may be a tad disingenuous.

Maybe it's time we realised that a lot of these so called 'refugees' are just queue jumping economic migrants who have little allegiance to Canada.

I sympathise at their tragic loss but it isn’t Stevey Harper’s fault and during the press conference it was quite obvious that this family is suffering and looking for an avenue for their grief and anger to be channelled into.

The blame for all this shit should be laid squarely at the feet of Hezbollah.