[hwacker]

Outspoken left-wing British MP Galloway says Canada is complicit in Iraq war

Mike Oliveira

MISSISSAUGA, Ont. (CP) - Despite its refusal to fight in Iraq, Canada is complicit in the U.S. war on terrorism and should withdraw from Afghanistan, an outspoken left-wing British MP said Saturday.

"I'm amazed that so many people in Canada believe they're not a part of this crime," George Galloway said at the sixth annual conference of the Islamic Circle of North America and the Muslim Association of Canada.

"Canada has sent an army of 1,000 soldiers to occupy the Muslim country of Afghanistan (and ships to the Persian Gulf)," Galloway said.

"Your ships in the Gulf and your soldiers in Afghanistan are doing the dirty work of George W. Bush and Tony Blair. They are freeing American ships and soldiers to go to Fallujah and massacre the people of Iraq."

Galloway also called Canada's reputation as peacekeepers a lie, pointing to comments by Gen. Rick Hillier, who said soldiers are fighting "detestable murderers and scumbags."

Hillier has said the Canadian Forces has a job to do and that involves killing people.

"That doesn't sound very much like neutrality to me," Galloway said to a receptive crowd. "You should raise the demand to end the Canadian occupation of Afghanistan."

Galloway is known for his vocal criticism of the war in Iraq and was kicked out of the Labour Party in 2003 for urging British soldiers not to fight in the war.

He launched his own anti-war party and this year won a seat in Parliament, unseating the Labour Party incumbent.

In his speech Saturday, he repeated statements he made recently in New York about why he believes Sept. 11 happened.

"These airplanes on 9-11 may have seemed to have come out of a clear blue sky but, in fact, these monstrous mosquitoes flew out of a swamp of bitterness and hatred and anger which exists in the Muslim world (because of) the injustice of western policy," Galloway said.

"It is a crime, it is a sin, in any language, in any religion, to punish innocent people for the crimes of guilty people," he said.

"But it is a crime and a sin whether it happens in Britain or New York or Fallujah or Baghdad or Palestine or Afghanistan or anywhere else the bombs and rockets are falling."


netscape.ca

[Bigboy]

$1:

Despite its refusal to fight in Iraq, Canada is complicit in the U.S. war on terrorism

No shit! we never said otherwise. Afghanistan was before Iraq

[Streaker]

I found out the hard way that netscape.ca is a lousy site to link to. They change the content of their pages every few hours.

Galloway's view is one I can respect, but I think the Taliban regime was a legitimate target in the war on terrorism.

[Thematic-Device]

the question is whether Canadian troops should be in afghanistan, regardless of US actions, the US will be pulling troops out of afghanistan, and it is the morally responsible to fill the void lest the cycle of violence in afghanistan repeats itself over again.

If there is a starving man on the street would you pass him by since you think your friend should give him money instead? Or that if your friend gave money it would keep him from doing irresponsible things?

[Streaker]

Thematic-Device Thematic-Device:

the question is whether Canadian troops should be in afghanistan, regardless of US actions, the US will be pulling troops out of afghanistan, and it is the morally responsible to fill the void lest the cycle of violence in afghanistan repeats itself over again.

If there is a starving man on the street would you pass him by since you think your friend should give him money instead? Or that if your friend gave money it would keep him from doing irresponsible things?

Good analogy, TD. I like Galloway a lot but I think he is "overanalysing" this.

[Motorcycleboy]

Streaker Streaker:

I think the Taliban regime was a legitimate target in the war on terrorism.

Well, in the words of the average 16 year old, 905, female mall rat....

Like, obviously, Duh!

[Motorcycleboy]

Thematic-Device Thematic-Device:

the question is whether Canadian troops should be in afghanistan, regardless of US actions, the US will be pulling troops out of afghanistan, and it is the morally responsible to fill the void lest the cycle of violence in afghanistan repeats itself over again.

If there is a starving man on the street would you pass him by since you think your friend should give him money instead? Or that if your friend gave money it would keep him from doing irresponsible things?

And, in the words of the average, 16 year old, 905, female mall rat....

Huh?

[Motorcycleboy]

Galloway is nothing more than a self loathing westerner and a complete lunatic. His hateful, anti-semetic views have left him isolated and alienated in the UK and now he's over here preaching to the only two constituencies that give him any time these days, that being radical muslim groups like CIC and the deluded U of T student council types who will grow out of his ideas about the same time they graduate and find a real job in the real world.

[Streaker]

Motorcycleboy Motorcycleboy:

Galloway is nothing more than a self loathing westerner and a complete lunatic. His hateful, anti-semetic views have left him isolated and alienated in the UK and now he's over here preaching to the only two constituencies that give him any time these days, that being radical muslim groups like CIC and the deluded U of T student council types who will grow out of his ideas about the same time they graduate and find a real job in the real world.

Galloway is a blowhard, no doubt (he kinda reminds me of a certain CKA member who shall remain nameless), and very likely anti-zionist, but where is the evidence of his being anti-semitic? I'm looking forward to a link, Lawndart.

Describing Galloway as being "isolated and alienated in the UK" is also an exagerration, now isn't it? Obviously a lot of people on both sides of the Atlantic are interested in what he has to say and they're not all muslim radicals or "deluded U of T student council types"(!), as you so fancifully contend.

[Motorcycleboy]

$1:

Streaker said: Galloway is a blowhard, no doubt (he kinda reminds me of a certain CKA member who shall remain nameless), and very likely anti-zionist, but where is the evidence of his being anti-semitic? I'm looking forward to a link, Lawndart.

I don’t need a “link.” I think in this day an age, any honest intellectual argument would take the position that “anti-zionism” is essentially anti-semetic. And I mean that in the commonly accepted view that anti-semetism equates to being anti-Jewish, so you can forget about pointing out that pure, true anti-semites hate Arabs as much as they hate Jews.

$1:

Streaker said:Describing Galloway as being "isolated and alienated in the UK" is also an exagerration, now isn't it?

No it’s not actually. He’s been booted from UK’s labour party. He’s their equivalent of Caroline Parish. That’s why he’s over here.

$1:

Streaker said: Obviously a lot of people on both sides of the Atlantic are interested in what he has to say and they're not all muslim radicals or "deluded U of T student council types"(!), as you so fancifully contend.

No, I suppose they’re not all muslim radicals. After all, Mohamed Elmasry, that U of Waterloo academic bastion of reason who advocated killing all Israeli Jews, regardless of age, profession or gender on the Michael Coren Show a few months back, is his main sponsor in Canada. So is his organization, the CIC.

I didn’t hear progressive muslim leader Tarek Fatah singing his praises though. Nor did I hear from Irshad Manji.

And by the way, just because a bunch of people "on both sides of the Atlantic" are interested in what he has to say, doesn't make him right. Lot's of people, on both sides of the Atlantic, were interested in what Adolf Hitler had to say in 1936. Charles Lindburgh is one name that comes to mind. Hitler was still wrong though (shall I include a link here to prove why?).

No Streaker, all we’ve got here is a bunch of know-nothing students looking for a cause, and a bunch of radical islamists with a hidden agenda, linking up to support a flakey nobody whose only claim to fame is provocative language and and a rabid loathing of his own culture.

[Streaker]

$1:

I don’t need a “link.” I think in this day an age, any honest intellectual argument would take the position that “anti-zionism” is essentially anti-semetic. And I mean that in the commonly accepted view that anti-semetism equates to being anti-Jewish, so you can forget about pointing out that pure, true anti-semites hate Arabs as much as they hate Jews.

It seems rather intellectually dishonest of you to conveniently lump "anti-semitism" and "anti-zionism" together. Oh well, you'll believe what you believe... Pretty lazy of you not to bother backing up your (false) assertion...

$1:

No it’s not actually. He’s been booted from UK’s labour party. He’s their equivalent of Caroline Parish. That’s why he’s over here.

Well he started his own party and got elected under its banner. I think it's safe to say that he has more irons in the fire than Parrish...

It would be entirely reasonable and fair of you to assert that Galloway is isolated and alienated from the Labour Party, but clearly there is a large constituency in the UK that is receptive to his stance. So, no, he is not a pariah in his native country.

$1:

No, I suppose they’re not all muslim radicals. After all, Mohamed Elmasry, that U of Waterloo academic bastion of reason who advocated killing all Israeli Jews, regardless of age, profession or gender on the Michael Coren Show a few months back, is his main sponsor in Canada. So is his organization, the CIC.

I didn’t hear progressive muslim leader Tarek Fatah singing his praises though. Nor did I hear from Irshad Manji.

I suppose it's no big surprise that Muslim radicals are gonna like much of what Galloway says. That hardly means that everyone who was against the war in Iraq is automatically in league with them! I know it's convenient for you to suggest otherwise.

$1:

And by the way, just because a bunch of people "on both sides of the Atlantic" are interested in what he has to say, doesn't make him right. Lot's of people, on both sides of the Atlantic, were interested in what Adolf Hitler had to say in 1936. Charles Lindburgh is one name that comes to mind. Hitler was still wrong though (shall I include a link here to prove why?).

No Streaker, all we’ve got here is a bunch of know-nothing students looking for a cause, and a bunch of radical islamists with a hidden agenda, linking up to support a flakey nobody whose only claim to fame is provocative language and and a rabid loathing of his own culture.

Attempting to draw a parallel between Galloway and Hitler is a dismal and shabby tactic. It undermines your credibility. Perhaps it's time you took an introductory political science course. Oops! I forgot - you're anti-education.

At any rate, if Galloway has a "rabid loathing" of his own culture, much the same could be said of you, Lawndart.

[Motorcycleboy]

$1:

Streaker Wrote:It seems rather intellectually dishonest of you to conveniently lump "anti-semitism" and "anti-zionism" together. Oh well, you'll believe what you believe... Pretty lazy of you not to bother backing up your (false) assertion

...

No, you’re right. The Jewish race has been treated quite fairly when left to the mercies of the rest of the world in the past. Maybe we should follow the advice of those of you on the left and turn Israel over to the Arabs. I’m sure they’d be quite tolerant of the Jews if they were administering Israel. I’m sure an Arab Israel would be would be a total success too, just like all the other Arab Democracies in the Middle East.


[

$1:

B]Streaker Wrote:[/B]It would be entirely reasonable and fair of you to assert that Galloway is isolated and alienated from the Labour Party, but clearly there is a large constituency in the UK that is receptive to his stance. So, no, he is not a pariah in his native country

.

No, actually, he’s alienated from the whole program. Firstly, he only got re-elected because he’s a shameless adherent to the politics of Racial Division. His riding is home to a disproportionate number of muslim immigrants and he plays to their worst instincts in order to benefit his own career. Secondly, his “Respect Party” is a one trick pony. Their only real policy is opposition to the war in Iraq. But like all you anti-war rocket scientists out there, he offers no real alternative beyond a unilateral American withdrawl, which is a non-starter.

$1:

Streaker Wrote: I suppose it's no big surprise that Muslim radicals are gonna like much of what Galloway says. That hardly means that everyone who was against the war in Iraq is automatically in league with them!

No, but I feel pretty comfortable opposing anyone who is supported by muslim radicals. Maybe you’re intellectual sluttery allows you to jump into ideological bed with anyone who agrees with you, but I choose my allies a little more carefully. After all, lie down with dogs…

$1:

Attempting to draw a parallel between Galloway and Hitler is a dismal and shabby tactic. It undermines your credibility. Perhaps it's time you took an introductory political science course. Oops! I forgot - you're anti-education.

I don’t think so. In fact, I would argue that the ideology behind radical Islam is at least as genocidal and nihilistic as that of Nazi Germany. Once you accept that, it’s easy to draw a parallel. Not between Galloway and Hitler, but indeed, between Islamist apologists like Galloway and Nazi apologists like Lindbergh.

$1:

Streaker Wrote: At any rate, if Galloway has a "rabid loathing" of his own culture, much the same could be said of you, Lawndart.

Au, contraire mon ami! I LOVE MY CULTURE! I am a perfect product of Western Civilization. I seek truth in the works of Plato and Socrates. I glean understanding of the world in the findings of Gallileo and Copernicus. I’m fascinated by the political machinations that make society work as defined by Machiavelli. I worship gifted battle leaders, like Ceasar, Napoleon, Rommel and Patton.

What I detest is mindless nationalism, as defined by some Canadians who are ignorant and chauvinistic enough to believe that Canada is some kind of moral compass the world looks to for guidance. On that one point, Galloway and I are in agreement.

[kerfuffled]

Motorcycleboy Motorcycleboy:

What I detest is mindless nationalism, as defined by some Canadians who are ignorant and chauvinistic enough to believe that Canada is some kind of moral compass the world looks to for guidance.

2 Snaps up!

[kerfuffled]

=

[Streaker]

$1:

No, you’re right. The Jewish race has been treated quite fairly when left to the mercies of the rest of the world in the past. Maybe we should follow the advice of those of you on the left and turn Israel over to the Arabs. I’m sure they’d be quite tolerant of the Jews if they were administering Israel. I’m sure an Arab Israel would be would be a total success too, just like all the other Arab Democracies in the Middle East.

No reasonable person would contend that Jews throughout history have had it good. Moreover, no serious person on the left suggests that Israel be turned over to the Palestinians lock stock and barrel! You sure are dogmatic for a person who reads the works of all those great philosophers!

$1:

No, actually, he’s alienated from the whole program. Firstly, he only got re-elected because he’s a shameless adherent to the politics of Racial Division. His riding is home to a disproportionate number of muslim immigrants and he plays to their worst instincts in order to benefit his own career. Secondly, his “Respect Party” is a one trick pony. Their only real policy is opposition to the war in Iraq. But like all you anti-war rocket scientists out there, he offers no real alternative beyond a unilateral American withdrawl, which is a non-starter.

Yes, all non-muslim Brits are rabidly pro-war. Actually, there are many people outside Galloway's riding who share his views. Your contention that his party is presently a one trick pony is tenable, however.

$1:

No, but I feel pretty comfortable opposing anyone who is supported by muslim radicals. Maybe you’re intellectual sluttery allows you to jump into ideological bed with anyone who agrees with you, but I choose my allies a little more carefully. After all, lie down with dogs…

You're dogmatic narrowmindedness is quite breathtaking, Motorcycleboy. I guess it's all about feeling smug and comfortable to people like you....

$1:

I don’t think so. In fact, I would argue that the ideology behind radical Islam is at least as genocidal and nihilistic as that of Nazi Germany. Once you accept that, it’s easy to draw a parallel. Not between Galloway and Hitler, but indeed, between Islamist apologists like Galloway and Nazi apologists like Lindbergh.

Judging from your 200-odd posts here, Motorcycleboy, I can't help but be left with the impression that you perfectly fit the profile of the typical Nazi supporter during that party's reign in Germany. An angry and easily manipulated member of the lumpenproletariat. Kind of ironic, eh?

$1:

Au, contraire mon ami! I LOVE MY CULTURE! I am a perfect product of Western Civilization. I seek truth in the works of Plato and Socrates. I glean understanding of the world in the findings of Gallileo and Copernicus. I’m fascinated by the political machinations that make society work as defined by Machiavelli. I worship gifted battle leaders, like Ceasar, Napoleon, Rommel and Patton.

What I detest is mindless nationalism, as defined by some Canadians who are ignorant and chauvinistic enough to believe that Canada is some kind of moral compass the world looks to for guidance. On that one point, Galloway and I are in agreement.

Take a look around you, Motorcycleboy. I'm sure you have all kinds of visible minorities in your neck of the woods. That's Canada's future and that's the reality of your culture. You hate it. Try and come to terms with the fact that Canada will never be - and for that matter has never been - the lily-white society you've dreamt of.

What I detest are mindless bigots who are arrogant and chauvinistic enough to believe that their ethnocentrism can be justified by drawing some intellectually facile comparison between what is happening in the middle east today and what happened in Europe seventy years ago.