[Thanos]

Well, polite golf-clap for interesting fiction anyway. LOL at anyone who thinks this sort of nonsense is ever going to happen outside of some Bizzaro parallel universe though.

[GreenTiger]

Losing a war is one thing, but to lose it to France would go beyond humiliation.

[desertdude]

I dunno ? Anything is possible I presume. Takes just one event to set off a chain reaction of violence. Look at 9/11, did anyone think the world would be like this a decade ago ? A flustrated vendor setting himself on fire in Tunisia setoff a whole load of bloodshed in the middle east just over a year ago.

Yesterdays friends are todays bitter enemies and vice versa so yes anything is possible. Hopefully it won't happen but just sayin' thats its not out of the realm of possibilty.

[ShepherdsDog]

if more people embrace secularism it will be avoided.

[uwish]

The UK couldn't defend anything right now. Their military has/is been cut by 25% and they think another 15% is likely. Just more chest beating and fear mongering from what I see.

I don't think anyone has the appetite for any major conflicts, nor can anyone afford them!

[bootlegga]

What a wankfest.

As if Canada would stand by and do nothing if something like that were to happen - heck even the US would probably intervene somehow. And seriously, the Europeans invading the UK? I guess in the future the UK doesn't own nukes any longer.

[martin14]

$1:

France humbles the British Army.

This was enough to not bother reading the rest.


Putin retaking the Balkans ? Sure, no problem.. the rest is...............just shit.

[BartSimpson]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

That article is about as credible as '28 weeks later'.

What a load of old bollocks.

I don't know. Churchill's prescient warnings about Germany were dismissed by 'polite society' in the London of the 1930's and when he turned out to be right it was almost too late for Britain to prepare.

I see stories like this as a form of wargaming, you get to see where you're exposed and even though the threat board is clear you still make sure your flanks are not exposed.

No one ever lost a war by being too prepared.

At this point if the Chancellor of Germany is saying that peace is not assured then this is not at all mere 'bollocks'. It's something to contemplate with diligence so Americans and Canadians don't have to build new graveyards and monuments in Europe.

[BartSimpson]

bootlegga bootlegga:

What a wankfest.

As if Canada would stand by and do nothing if something like that were to happen - heck even the US would probably intervene somehow. And seriously, the Europeans invading the UK? I guess in the future the UK doesn't own nukes any longer.

Canada would assist how? And with what?

No offense, but if Denmark objected to the RCN deploying to Europe your fleet would not make it past Greenland. That's not an insult, mind you, it's a simple statement of fact. Canada also lacks the ability to move ground forces by sea so if the USA is isolationist how are you getting your Leopards over to Europe? You sure as hell don't have an airlift capability that will do this in a timely manner and I doubt the Russians will rent you planes when they're using them to retake Eastern Europe.

Funny, if you end up squaring off against the Germans do you think they'll be kind enough to supply you with parts for your German made tanks?

As to France and Germany posing a threat to the UK...why not? It's not like that's without precedent.

It'd be interesting to see the Royal family evacuate to Canada.

Other thing is that the growing nationalist sentiment over there may well bode bad news for the rabble-rousing segment of Islam. I think the assimilated Muslims would fare well (like the Fayed family in the UK) but the mob that likes to pray in the streets of France would likely find themselves swimming back to Algiers.

[Thanos]

What's far more likely to happen in Europe is that some of our Muslim friends are going to do something horrible one day, like another 9/11 or even a nuke in a shipping container. After that it'll be game over in rapid succession for most immigrants in Europe. The local rightists in all the nations, from Spain to Russia, will go batshit insane, and the police and military will probably spontaneously decide not to interfere with it (assuming that most of them don't join in on it themselves). Any leftist politicians or leftist groups that try to get in the way will be subject to the same pogrom.

Peace is, of course, a far superior state of being. But Europeans have been and always will be killers at heart. Scratch the veneer of the phony ennui-pregnant sophistication that they wrap around themselves and you find rather quickly that they really aren't all that different from the way their great-granddads behaved about a hundred years ago. Given them a sufficient enough provocation and the beast will come roaring out a lot quicker than anyone would suspect.

[bootlegga]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

bootlegga bootlegga:

What a wankfest.

As if Canada would stand by and do nothing if something like that were to happen - heck even the US would probably intervene somehow. And seriously, the Europeans invading the UK? I guess in the future the UK doesn't own nukes any longer.

Canada would assist how? And with what?

No offense, but if Denmark objected to the RCN deploying to Europe your fleet would not make it past Greenland. That's not an insult, mind you, it's a simple statement of fact. Canada also lacks the ability to move ground forces by sea so if the USA is isolationist how are you getting your Leopards over to Europe? You sure as hell don't have an airlift capability that will do this in a timely manner and I doubt the Russians will rent you planes when they're using them to retake Eastern Europe.

Funny, if you end up squaring off against the Germans do you think they'll be kind enough to supply you with parts for your German made tanks?

As to France and Germany posing a threat to the UK...why not? It's not like that's without precedent.

It'd be interesting to see the Royal family evacuate to Canada.

Other thing is that the growing nationalist sentiment over there may well bode bad news for the rabble-rousing segment of Islam. I think the assimilated Muslims would fare well (like the Fayed family in the UK) but the mob that likes to pray in the streets of France would likely find themselves swimming back to Algiers.

Probably the same way we did during the last two world wars - mostly by ourselves (and while you Americans sat on the sidelines for a couple of years ).

Honestly though, the CF is much larger, better trained (and with a fair amount of combat experience too) and better equipped than it was prior to either world war in the last century, so I'm not at all worried about our ability to contribute. Political will and public pressure (not to intervene) would be the issues I'd be more concerned with.

And Denmark, please. They would be a cakewalk. Most of their ships are smaller and less well armed than ours are. I have no doubt we'd lose a ship of three, but their tiny navy would get wiped out if they tried to take us one-on-one. The ones to worry about would be the German and French navies.

Our planes could easily fly across the Atlantic to fight in a 2nd Battle of Britain should it come to that.

Re: sea transport, there are plenty of freighters we could hire out to ship our troops over there. Who knows, maybe the Conservatives will get off their asses and finally build the JSS like they promised years ago - if that happens, they can easily supplement the merchant marine, as each is supposed to be able to carry and support a company or two of troops.

Secondly, the government bought four super expensive buses (I think the USAF calls them C-17s) a few years back and I'm sure they could get our tanks and heavy equipment there. Coupled with our new fleet of C-130Js, we have plenty of airlift, especially without our previous huge commitment in Afghanistan. Besides, if the Brits were in tight against the continentals, why wouldn't they use some of their airlift (C-17s, C-130s, A-400s) to help bring over troops and supplies?

And frankly, I'm sure General Dynamics Land Systems (builders of the LAV) could tool up to make parts for the Leo 2s we have - it might take a few months, but I doubt we'd be sending our boys straight into the fire.

Odds are even if a major war did start, there would be a big push initially, then a long lull as everyone retooled factories to make tanks, planes, trained troops, etc.

No, Canada was a fairly major player in WW2, and I expect we would be in WW3 as well. The biggest difference is that unlike WW1 and WW2, Canada probably would face attacks on its cities and suffer civilian casualties.

[BartSimpson]

bootlegga bootlegga:

Probably the same way we did during the last two world wars - mostly by ourselves (and while you Americans sat on the sidelines for a couple of years ).

The First World War was a family squabble that was really not our concern until the King's cousin started shooting at Americans. The 2nd war was a direct result of Europeans continuing the first one by means of treaty and, again, we didn't see it as our concern until Mr. Hitler declared war on us.

bootlegga bootlegga:

Honestly though, the CF is much larger, better trained (and with a fair amount of combat experience too) and better equipped than it was prior to either world war in the last century, so I'm not at all worried about our ability to contribute. Political will and public pressure (not to intervene) would be the issues I'd be more concerned with.

True. I've no doubt that Mr. Canada and Andy would be opposed to Canada sending troops to Europe.

bootlegga bootlegga:

And Denmark, please. They would be a cakewalk. Most of their ships are smaller and less well armed than ours are. I have no doubt we'd lose a ship of three, but their tiny navy would get wiped out if they tried to take us one-on-one. The ones to worry about would be the German and French navies.

Don't sell them short. They may not be a big dog but there's a lot of fight in that dog.

bootlegga bootlegga:

Our planes could easily fly across the Atlantic to fight in a 2nd Battle of Britain should it come to that.

Again, you'd be dealing with the Danes and forward posted EU fighters staged in Greenland and Iceland. It would not be easy going.

bootlegga bootlegga:

Re: sea transport, there are plenty of freighters we could hire out to ship our troops over there. Who knows, maybe the Conservatives will get off their asses and finally build the JSS like they promised years ago - if that happens, they can easily supplement the merchant marine, as each is supposed to be able to carry and support a company or two of troops.

Freighters anymore are container ships and those are not well suited to troops. And what you need for armour are roll-on, roll-off ships and Canada doesn't have a single one of those even in private ownership.

bootlegga bootlegga:

Secondly, the government bought four super expensive buses (I think the USAF calls them C-17s) a few years back and I'm sure they could get our tanks and heavy equipment there. Coupled with our new fleet of C-130Js, we have plenty of airlift, especially without our previous huge commitment in Afghanistan. Besides, if the Brits were in tight against the continentals, why wouldn't they use some of their airlift (C-17s, C-130s, A-400s) to help bring over troops and supplies?

You'd have to have air superiority in order to employ your transports in a ferry role and then you're still going to need a helluva lot of lead time to fly your armour over there in significant enough numbers to compose even a brigade. Four transports is not near enough.

bootlegga bootlegga:

And frankly, I'm sure General Dynamics Land Systems (builders of the LAV) could tool up to make parts for the Leo 2s we have - it might take a few months, but I doubt we'd be sending our boys straight into the fire.

Funny, I believe you're right but if the US is at peace with Germany then I imagine their lawyers will sue to prevent any American firms from infringing on German patents. In which case we'd probably just roll a few hundred M1's across the border to you.

bootlegga bootlegga:

Odds are even if a major war did start, there would be a big push initially, then a long lull as everyone retooled factories to make tanks, planes, trained troops, etc.

No, because those factories will be prime targets for the enemy's cruise missiles. I think this next war would be fast and furious at the start and then followed by a lull when both sides would be hard put to come up with spares.

bootlegga bootlegga:

No, Canada was a fairly major player in WW2, and I expect we would be in WW3 as well. The biggest difference is that unlike WW1 and WW2, Canada probably would face attacks on its cities and suffer civilian casualties.

Agreed.

[BartSimpson]

Thanos Thanos:

What's far more likely to happen in Europe is that some of our Muslim friends are going to do something horrible one day, like another 9/11 or even a nuke in a shipping container. After that it'll be game over in rapid succession for most immigrants in Europe. The local rightists in all the nations, from Spain to Russia, will go batshit insane, and the police and military will probably spontaneously decide not to interfere with it (assuming that most of them don't join in on it themselves). Any leftist politicians or leftist groups that try to get in the way will be subject to the same pogrom.

I don't think it would just be righties going after the Muslims if they nuke a European city. At that point I really think a lot of Europeans will set aside their political differences and just become pragmatic survivalists out for vengeance.

Like you've said here, the Europeans are killers at heart and I believe the Muslims truly underestimate these people. They mistake liberalism for weakness.

Frankly, a Muslim attack wouild be one of the things that Europeans would rally against. It would not then surprise me to see European leaders orchestrate an event to get the Euros to scapegoat their Muslim neighbors.

[ShepherdsDog]

Don't think the al-Faranj will have to create scape goats to justify a reversion. Two world wars and a hand full of smaller ones in the last hundered years satisfied their blood thirst for awhile. Bored Europeans are NOT a good thing. The Germans were some of the best educated and cultured people in Europe, but it didn't take much to get them to revert to Teutonic Knights.

[martin14]

I dunno, boys, a lot of things have changed.

I saw Madrid, and .. the Spanish turned tail out of Iraq.

7/7, and ... nothing.

Now, St. Paul's is basically shut down and ... nothing.

Daily stories will show up now of 'no poppies here' and 'no vets there', and .. nothing.

Lots of other smaller incidents and .... nothing.. the daily assault continues.


I saw more patriotism in Canada last time I was home than exists here.


Although, a nuked city would be a game changer.