[desertdude]

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/op ... t-1.323314

[ShepherdsDog]

Gideon Levy isn't seen as the most popular person in Israel.

[GreenTiger]

In The States to criticize anything about Israel will instantly get you labeled as Anti-Semitic. Even when they kill Americans (USS Liberty 1964) they get the blessings of The American President, although President also Lyndon Johnson wanted that ship (our ship) sunk with no survivors, but that is another story.

Yes, in the States Israel can do no wrong.

Only Jews can get away with saying any thing critical about Israel.

[desertdude]

Hopefully that will change and it has already started to slowly and people and the US govt start to realise that their previous strategic ally in the region has now become a strategic burden costing the American tax payer billions every year.

Lets see how many years of influence groups like AIPAC have left.

[BartSimpson]

GreenTiger GreenTiger:

Even when they kill Americans (USS Liberty 1964) they get the blessings of The American President

The attack on the Liberty was in 1967, not 1964.

Also, I met LCmdr (ret) James Ennes back in 1984 and he said the same.

President Johnson was heard saying that he'd rather see the crew of the Liberty drowned than to see an ally embarrassed. In the more-or-less official commentary on this topic all of the assistance to the Liberty was denied by the Navy per Presidential order. Per Ennes the local commander of the fleet, Adm. Geis, went ahead on his own and ignored the orders from the President and SecDef and sent fighters into the area to establish CAP and then he signaled the Israelis in the open that aggressors attacking the Liberty were about to be attacked by the US Mediterranean Fleet and that the bases of the attackers were subject to attack, as well.

Three minutes after that signal was sent the attack ended. Geis was not sanctioned for his action because that would've likely ended up with President Johnson's impeachment.

[BartSimpson]

desertdude desertdude:

Hopefully that will change and it has already started to slowly and people and the US govt start to realise that their previous strategic ally in the region has now become a strategic burden costing the American tax payer billions every year.

Lets see how many years of influence groups like AIPAC have left.

US support of Israel is not going to end in my lifetime or yours. Accept it and move on.

[GreenTiger]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

GreenTiger GreenTiger:

Even when they kill Americans (USS Liberty 1964) they get the blessings of The American President

The attack on the Liberty was in 1967, not 1964.

Also, I met LCmdr (ret) James Ennes back in 1984 and he said the same.

President Johnson was heard saying that he'd rather see the crew of the Liberty drowned than to see an ally embarrassed. In the more-or-less official commentary on this topic all of the assistance to the Liberty was denied by the Navy per Presidential order. Per Ennes the local commander of the fleet, Adm. Geis, went ahead on his own and ignored the orders from the President and SecDef and sent fighters into the area to establish CAP and then he signaled the Israelis in the open that aggressors attacking the Liberty were about to be attacked by the US Mediterranean Fleet and that the bases of the attackers were subject to attack, as well.

Three minutes after that signal was sent the attack ended. Geis was not sanctioned for his action because that would've likely ended up with President Johnson's impeachment.

Thank you for the correction of the date. That incident and President Johnson makes me sick. My father a Navy veteran from WWII foams at the mouth when he is reminded of this. According to a you tube article the Israelis knew the jig was up when a Soviet war ship showed up. The Israeli navy machined gunned US sailors in the water. Hitlers U-Boats didn't even do that, but then again they had the blessing of President Johnson.

[desertdude]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

desertdude desertdude:

Hopefully that will change and it has already started to slowly and people and the US govt start to realise that their previous strategic ally in the region has now become a strategic burden costing the American tax payer billions every year.

Lets see how many years of influence groups like AIPAC have left.

US support of Israel is not going to end in my lifetime or yours. Accept it and move on.

Somehow I think it will given the current economic and political climate. Its already starting to show cracks. Europe is almost there.

The world revolves on hope and hope floats so there

[BartSimpson]

GreenTiger GreenTiger:

Thank you for the correction of the date. That incident and President Johnson makes me sick. My father a Navy veteran from WWII foams at the mouth when he is reminded of this. According to a you tube article the Israelis knew the jig was up when a Soviet war ship showed up. The Israeli navy machined gunned US sailors in the water. Hitlers U-Boats didn't even do that, but then again they had the blessing of President Johnson.

I will allow that the attack may have started as a mistake but when the Israelis persisted in firing on a ship flying a US flag they crossed a line. It's something that no one in the Navy (or the Marines) has forgotten and, consequently, US Navy ships sailing in the area *still* consider Israeli forces as 'yellow' while all others are red or green. That's because they're considered...and I quote: friendly with potentially hostile intent.

The US-Israel relationship, really, is not so much an alliance of friends, but a mere convergence of common interests.

Were an actual peace to occur in the ME then US support of Israel would no longer be politically sustainable in the Congress.

[BartSimpson]

desertdude desertdude:

Somehow I think it will given the current economic and political climate. Its already starting to show cracks. Europe is almost there.

The world revolves on hope and hope floats so there

Do keep in mind that US influence on Israel is why you don't see the IDF shopping for Hannukah gifts at that nice litte shopping center on 9th street in Abu Dhabi.

[desertdude]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

desertdude desertdude:

Somehow I think it will given the current economic and political climate. Its already starting to show cracks. Europe is almost there.

The world revolves on hope and hope floats so there

Do keep in mind that US influence on Israel is why you don't see the IDF shopping for Hannukah gifts at that nice litte shopping center on 9th street in Abu Dhabi.

I seriously doubt that, Israel very well knows it will commit political suicide if it does anything of the sort. The whole world will turn against such an agression in todays time.

US does nothing but turn a blind eye, veto in favour of Israel and send billions in aid.

[BartSimpson]

desertdude desertdude:

I seriously doubt that, Israel very well knows it will commit political suicide if it does anything of the sort. The whole world will turn against such an agression in todays time.

US does nothing but turn a blind eye, veto in favour of Israel and send billions in aid.

The only reason the Israelis didn't cross the Suez Canal to take Cairo back in 1973 was because of the US. The same can be said for why they didn't take Damascus and Amman.

See, the beauty of this is that if the Arabs put on another gang-bang of Israel then world opinion will be silent...again...as an unshackled Israel rolls over you guys. And they will.

They use US-NATO equipment and US-NATO tactics and you folks use Russian-Chinese kit and tend to favor Russian tactics.

And we all know how well that Russian kit and caboodle worked out up against a serious military ('Highway of Death' anyone?). And the IDF makes the US look like amateurs.

While I am not pro-Israel, I do have a serious grasp of their capabilities and of the capability of the Arabs. Even without the US helping/restraining Israel - all of the Arabs are not a match for half of Israel.

[desertdude]

I don't disagree with you on the military ablities of the arabs, But I said it would be political suicide on Israels part if it ever went and did that, it would overnight become the black sheep of the world. There would be huge anti Israel sentiment in west and Israel does love those free billions.

Then maybe Iran and Pakistan would also get drawn into the conflict both of which have the only armies capable of putting up a fight in the close proximity of the region. Just the sheer numbers game would be tough to get over with.

And I also disagree about the world opinion would be slient and israel just rolling over. Well the only scenario I could think would be the world just got tired of its crying wolf all the time while its agression and land grabbing goes on the other side and just didn't give a fuck anymore.

But over all in a hypothetical scenario if Israel wanted to do serious damage to anyone here it could and maybe even occupy the smaller GCC countries, but could never succesfully occupy whole big land mass countries like Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iran and maybe even saudi.

And it doesn't do that because of the US that I disagree with. If it could ever do so without any reprecussions it would have done it ages ago.Wheter the US likes it or not, it never listens to it anyway. They just the billions and vetos other than that they tell the US to fuck off about everything else.

Yahoo is currently trying to presuade to Biden to do some serious sabre rattling on its behalf to Iran. If it was capable why does it have to ask the US ?

[EyeBrock]

Israel isn't threatening to invade any Arab country but Arab countries are threatening to wipe Israel off the map.

The Arabs have tried a few times in the past to no avail. What's your point DD?

[desertdude]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Israel isn't threatening to invade any Arab country but Arab countries are threatening to wipe Israel off the map.

Israel isn't threatning, it already has. And once again I ask which arab leader threatened or is threathing to wipe off Israel off the map