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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:43 pm
 


Years ago, when my job entailed a lot of travel around BC and Alberta, I got the flu and a bad cold every year. I then started getting a flu shot every year and since that time I haven't had the flu or a bad cold. I'm still not sure about H1N1 vaccine, but I'll definitely get the usual flu shot again this year.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:01 pm
 


PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:
Because as I said, whenever I DID get the flu shot, it worked, I got the flu. Please explain to me why the hell I would want to make myself sick on purpose.

The flu shot that you got did not CAUSE the flu.

In any year, there are multiple strains of the flu running around. Scientists make a 'best guess' about what strains are going to be most common and put that into the vaccine. In the years that you got the flu shot and got sick, you likely ended up catching one of the strains of the flu that wasn't included in the vaccine. You would have gotten sick anyways. (Heck, the flu vaccine may have actually kept you from getting sick twice in one year... stopping one infection but not stopping the second.)

$1:
And risk?? Getting in your car and driving is THE single most dangerous thing we do and we do it every damn day. I stand about 1000% greater risk of dying in a car accident in the next week then I do of dying from the flu at any time.

Hey, I'm not denying that there are other things more dangerous out there than the flu. But you can easily and safely cut down the risk of getting the flu without changing your lifestyle.

$1:
Let's take a look at your logic for a moment here. If I don't get the flu shot, I could give someone the flu even before the symptoms appear in me. However, based on MY past history, when I got the shot, I got the flu. So there is a good chance I could just as easily infect someone AFTER I get the shot and before the symptoms appear in me. Hmmm what to do, what to do. :roll:


Once again, the flu shot did not give you the flu. It can't. The virus used in the vaccine is dead. It will not make you sick, nor will it make you able to pass the flu on to others. You likely caught a flu strain that wasn't included in the vaccine, that you would have caught regardless.

(Now, the flu shot CAN cause flu-like symptoms for some people... minor aches, sore arm, etc. But this is not the flu, it is not transmissible, and the symtoms disappear within a couple of days.)


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:12 pm
 


$1:
If you have the opportunity but don't get the shot, you could be contributing to the death of others.

That is emotional blackmail that I do not fall for. You cannot quilttrip people into doing things they normally wouldn't.

I am not getting this shot, or any other shot against a virus that my immune system should be able to fight. If not, you can come sing at my funeral. Till then, it is my own choice.

I was never vaccinated against chickenpox either, nor were my kids. We all just got it, my daughter even twice. First when she was 9 months old, and then when she was 2. When my oldest got her shots in grade 6, I was surprised Canada actually vaccinates against it. Ridiculous. There is nothing wrong with getting sick and build an immune system.

GO EAT DIRT! (litterally :lol:)


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:19 pm
 


raydan raydan:
As for me, I'm not arguing that nobody should a flu shot because of me. I'm just saying I'm not getting a flu shot.

And by not getting it, you are risking both your own life, and the lives of others.

Congrats... like so many others, you're both scientifically ignorant and uncaring.
$1:
Too much hype, not enough hard facts for my taste.


I admit, there is a lot of over-hype. Peole are not going to be dying left and right if they don't get vaccinated. But there WILL be at least some deaths which would be preventable if people would have actually engaged in some rational thought and got the flu shot.

As for facts, there are actually plenty of "hard facts", if you look around for them.

Is it safe? Yes... there have been clinical trials published in various peer-reviewed journals that show no adverse reactios to the vaccine.

Is it effective? Studies show that the proper antibodies are formed following immunization.

Will it save lives? Probably. How many lives it saves is unknown. (Depends on how widespread immunization is, how quickly people get vaccinated, etc.)

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/NEJMoa0907413 (study showing safety of H1N1 vaccine along with immune response)
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/NEJMoa0708630 (study showing how using the flu vaccine significantly cut the number of illnesses in other years)
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/357/14/1373 (another study showing reduction in deaths/illnuses)


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:23 pm
 


$1:
And by not getting it, you are risking both your own life, and the lives of others.

Congrats... like so many others, you're both scientifically ignorant and uncaring.


I can't help but wonder what you do for a living...


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:30 pm
 


Brenda Brenda:
$1:
If you have the opportunity but don't get the shot, you could be contributing to the death of others.

That is emotional blackmail that I do not fall for. You cannot quilttrip people into doing things they normally wouldn't.

No, but you can explain to people the possible consequences of their actions, and hope that they actually make a sound, logical decision based on science.

$1:
I am not getting this shot, or any other shot against a virus that my immune system should be able to fight. If not, you can come sing at my funeral. Till then, it is my own choice.

Ahhh... if only it were that simple...

Hey, I'd have no problem if the only people at risk was you... after all, it would be Darwin in action: kill off the dumb ones, let the rest of us survive.

However, you ARE risking the lives of other people.

Its called 'herd immunity'. I suggest you look into it.
$1:
I was never vaccinated against chickenpox either, nor were my kids. We all just got it, my daughter even twice. First when she was 9 months old, and then when she was 2. When my oldest got her shots in grade 6, I was surprised Canada actually vaccinates against it. Ridiculous. There is nothing wrong with getting sick and build an immune system.

That last sentence is perhaps the dumbest thing I've read all day....

Do you even know how a vaccine works? Vaccines work by actually introducing a virus (weakend or dead, or components), and cause the body to build up its own immunity. Vaccines IMPROVE your immune system.

Up until the late 1970s, the disease Small pox was a problem. Millions were infected every year. Many died, others were left with horrible disfiguring scars. Now, thanks to successful vaccine programs, the disease has actually been eradicated! No more smallpox scars, no more deaths. Frankly, if there had been more people like you arround, we'd still be burying many dead.

I find it quite revealing... I have posted multiple links to various peer reviewed scientific studies as evidence to support my opinions. All I hear from the anti-vaccination side are irrelevant anecdotes and scientific ignorance.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:32 pm
 


Brenda Brenda:
$1:
And by not getting it, you are risking both your own life, and the lives of others.

Congrats... like so many others, you're both scientifically ignorant and uncaring.


I can't help but wonder what you do for a living...

Why does it matter?

I have published references to multiple studies appearing in scientific journals showing vaccines are safe and effective. The information that I provide speaks for itself.

Edited to add:
Here's a suggestion... rather than questioning what I do for a living and accusing me of 'emotional blackmail', why don't you show me where I'm wrong. Simple fact is, you couldn't. The way I stated it may seem harsh, but its 100% accurate. Sorry, I have no interest in sugarcoating it for you.


Last edited by segno on Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:34 pm
 


When you have seen a child die as a reaction to a vaccination, you think 25 times before you get any shot.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:37 pm
 


Brenda Brenda:
When you have seen a child die as a reaction to a vaccination, you think 25 times before you get any shot.


Serious side effects to any vaccine are exceptionally rare. Doubt you or anyone you know has ever "seen a child die" from vaccinations.

Any suggestion that children are "dying from vaccinations" is not grounded in science. (Ironic, considering you were accusing me of "emotional blackmail".)


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:38 pm
 


Well, they got rid of using a mercury based ingredient in the vaccines finally but let's look at the rest of the crap found in flu vaccines shall we?

•Ethylene glycol is used as antifreeze. Ethylene glycol and its toxic byproducts first affect the central nervous system, then the heart and finally the kidneys. Ingestion of sufficient amounts can be fatal.

•Phenol, also known as carbolic acid, is used as a disinfectant and dye. Phenol was originally used as an antiseptic in surgery but it use was abandoned because it causes skin irritation. Before and during the Second World War, phenol injections were used by Nazi Germans as a means of rapid execution!

•Formaldehyde is the chemical used for embalming. It is used in vaccines as a perservative. Formadelhyde is a known cancer-causing agent and it can also cause allergic reactions. Its use in cosmetics is banned in Sweden and Japan.

•Aluminum is a toxic metal used as an additive in flu shots to promote antibody response. Aluminium is widely associated with Alzheimer's disease and studies have shown that people who received five or more flu shots during a 10-year period has 10 times higher risks of developing Alzheimer's Disease, compared to those who had fewer than two flu shots. Aluminuim has also been shown to cause seizures and cancer in laboratory mice.

•Antibiotics like Neomycin and Streptomycin are used as, well, antibiotics, They are added to flu shots to kill any bacteria that may be present. These antibiotics can cause allergic reaction in some people.

And of course you'll hear the argument that they are in "acceptable" amounts. Now, I'm no doctor but there is NO acceptable amount of any of that shit.

Now, how do they produce this virus that goes into flu shots? Or the bacteria that goes into other types of vaccines?

These are cultivated in animal proteins, such as rabbit brain tissue, monkey kidney tissue, pig blood, chicken embryo, embryonic guinea pig cells and calf serum. When injected into the body, these proteins turn toxic because proteins have to be broken down into amino acids by the digestive system before they can be utilised.

Enjoy your shots XD


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:38 pm
 


Doubt whatever you want. I have my own reasons for what I am doing. I do not care what you or anybody else think about it. Free country, remember.

And, fyi, Segno, I never suggested that. I said "as a reaction". Learn how to read, please!


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:46 pm
 


Brenda Brenda:
When you have seen a child die as a reaction to a vaccination, you think 25 times before you get any shot.

You have more chances of dying from the flu than from the shot. By far.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:50 pm
 


Proculation Proculation:
Brenda Brenda:
When you have seen a child die as a reaction to a vaccination, you think 25 times before you get any shot.

You have more chances of dying from the flu than from the shot. By far.

And here I am, still alive. Your point?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:52 pm
 


PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:
Well, they got rid of using a mercury based ingredient in the vaccines finally but let's look at the rest of the crap found in flu vaccines shall we?

•Ethylene glycol is used as antifreeze. Ethylene glycol and its toxic byproducts first affect the central nervous system, then the heart and finally the kidneys. Ingestion of sufficient amounts can be fatal.

•Phenol, also known as carbolic acid, is used as a disinfectant and dye. Phenol was originally used as an antiseptic in surgery but it use was abandoned because it causes skin irritation. Before and during the Second World War, phenol injections were used by Nazi Germans as a means of rapid execution!

•Formaldehyde is the chemical used for embalming. It is used in vaccines as a perservative. Formadelhyde is a known cancer-causing agent and it can also cause allergic reactions. Its use in cosmetics is banned in Sweden and Japan.

•Aluminum is a toxic metal used as an additive in flu shots to promote antibody response. Aluminium is widely associated with Alzheimer's disease and studies have shown that people who received five or more flu shots during a 10-year period has 10 times higher risks of developing Alzheimer's Disease, compared to those who had fewer than two flu shots. Aluminuim has also been shown to cause seizures and cancer in laboratory mice.

•Antibiotics like Neomycin and Streptomycin are used as, well, antibiotics, They are added to flu shots to kill any bacteria that may be present. These antibiotics can cause allergic reaction in some people.

And of course you'll hear the argument that they are in "acceptable" amounts. Now, I'm no doctor but there is NO acceptable amount of any of that shit.

Now, how do they produce this virus that goes into flu shots? Or the bacteria that goes into other types of vaccines?

These are cultivated in animal proteins, such as rabbit brain tissue, monkey kidney tissue, pig blood, chicken embryo, embryonic guinea pig cells and calf serum. When injected into the body, these proteins turn toxic because proteins have to be broken down into amino acids by the digestive system before they can be utilised.

Enjoy your shots XD


Yes, there are acceptable amount of almost everything. That's the toxicity level. The mercury in the shots is all out of the body without any consequences within a few days. A shot is how much ? l cc ?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:55 pm
 


Brenda Brenda:
Proculation Proculation:
Brenda Brenda:
When you have seen a child die as a reaction to a vaccination, you think 25 times before you get any shot.

You have more chances of dying from the flu than from the shot. By far.

And here I am, still alive. Your point?


The point is that yours means nothing. Seeing someone die of a flu shot is rarer than seeing someone die from the flu. I prefer to take the less risky way which is getting the shot. A logical choice.


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