[Motorcycleboy]

Hester Hester:

You don't gripe to/in front of your subordinates - and you don't do it in public. Gripes go up the chain.

You're a soldier and you post opinions on here.

I saw a group of military people at CFB Edmonton being interviewed after the Liberals Election ad slamming the military. Each one of them offered a negative opinion of the Liberal government. As far as I know, none of them have been disciplined for it.

In 1994, while a member of the CAR, I wrote a letter to the Ottawa Citizen critical of a column they'd run critical of us. I never got in shit. In fact, I was approached by a couple of officers who complimented me on my insights.

Although you're correct, that Military regulations restrict soldiers right to voice an opinion publicly, you'll find it's rarely applied. That's because the military knows it would never stand up to a Charter argument if someone pushed it.

On top of that, those regulations were written before there was such a thing as the internet. It's an unenforceable regulation, as people post here anonymously. And as any copper can tell you, any rule that is unenforceable eventually becomes non-existent.

Don't get so worked up over it. Just be pleased that members of the CF have taken the time to familiarize themselves with the issues.

[Motorcycleboy]

lily lily:

I guess since you're a vet you're allowed to criticize?

Good for you.

Anyone's allowed to criticize. It's a free country and a democracy(or at least will be again after tomorrow!)

I guess my point that if it's ok to disband an entire regiment for the actions of a few of it's members, the corollary is that it's ok to punt a political party for the actions of it's members was a little to tough for you to refute.

I'll take your avoidance of the issue as confirmation you've been forced to agree with my iron-clad logic!

[Hester]

Motorcycleboy Motorcycleboy:

Hester Hester:

You don't gripe to/in front of your subordinates - and you don't do it in public. Gripes go up the chain.

You're a soldier and you post opinions on here.

And I state that this is the wrong forum for it. I have not stated an opinion critical of the government.

Motorcycleboy Motorcycleboy:

I saw a group of military people at CFB Edmonton being interviewed after the Liberals Election ad slamming the military. Each one of them offered a negative opinion of the Liberal government. As far as I know, none of them have been disciplined for it.

In 1994, while a member of the CAR, I wrote a letter to the Ottawa Citizen critical of a column they'd run critical of us. I never got in shit. In fact, I was approached by a couple of officers who complimented me on my insights.

Although you're correct, that Military regulations restrict soldiers right to voice an opinion publicly, you'll find it's rarely applied. That's because the military knows it would never stand up to a Charter argument if someone pushed it.

If it happens and no one is charged - that's a failure of leadership.
Again, why do you think the CDS has said nothing?

Motorcycleboy Motorcycleboy:

On top of that, those regulations were written before there was such a thing as the internet. It's an unenforceable regulation, as people post here anonymously. And as any copper can tell you, any rule that is unenforceable eventually becomes non-existent.

Don't get so worked up over it. Just be pleased that members of the CF have taken the time to familiarize themselves with the issues.

There are problems with the CF, we won't go into them here.

I'll say this for the third time: if you want to post anonymously - feel free.
If you have a nickname, avatar, signature, or the soldier medal associating you with the CF you are not allowed to post any thing you like in a public forum.

[Tricks]

Hester Hester:

Motorcycleboy Motorcycleboy:

Hester Hester:

I'll say this for the third time: if you want to post anonymously - feel free.
If you have a nickname, avatar, signature, or the soldier medal associating you with the CF you are not allowed to post any thing you like in a public forum.

are vets allowed to say anything according to the rules?

[Hester]

Motorcycleboy Motorcycleboy:

I'll take your avoidance of the issue as confirmation you've been forced to agree with my iron-clad logic!

If nobody bothered to answer any of your posts would you blithely assume that you are correct in all that you state?

[Motorcycleboy]

VitaminC VitaminC:

Do you even know the story about the airborne in somalia? It had nothing to do with war.

Some soldiers kidnapped a somalian and held him in their tent and tortured him. They finally killed him.....he was not a combatant, and it had nothing to do with their mission there....

They also practiced hazing where they made a black guy have nigger written on his back and rub human feces on himself....

I love it when you take an arrogant stance and then fuck up your facts.

Firstly, I didn't get my information on this from books. I was there, I knew Matchee, I knew Brown and I knew pretty much everybody else who was involved in that.

Arone wasn't kidnapped, he was caught infiltrating the camp. So you're wrong there.

Second, "The Airborne" never discussed "storming parliament." That was just some rumour that got started from outside the unit. After the disbandment, the regiment held a stand down parade and acquitted themselves like the professional soldiers they were.

You've claimed that before on here and when I challenged you to provide evidence of it, you responded that you'd "heard it before somewhere." If you're going to continue promoting deliberate misrepresetations then expect me hound you mercilessly everytime you post.

It's a shame when people don't know their history, damn shame.

[Hester]

Tricks Tricks:

Hester Hester:

Motorcycleboy Motorcycleboy:

Hester Hester:

I'll say this for the third time: if you want to post anonymously - feel free.
If you have a nickname, avatar, signature, or the soldier medal associating you with the CF you are not allowed to post any thing you like in a public forum.

are vets allowed to say anything according to the rules?

Yes, they are not encumbered the by the National Defence Act or the Code of Service Discipline.

That would be unenforceable - asking former employees not to complain about their employer. That goes for any organization.

[Tricks]

Hester Hester:

Tricks Tricks:

Hester Hester:

I'll say this for the third time: if you want to post anonymously - feel free.
If you have a nickname, avatar, signature, or the soldier medal associating you with the CF you are not allowed to post any thing you like in a public forum.

are vets allowed to say anything according to the rules?

Yes, they are not encumbered the by the National Defence Act or the Code of Service Discipline.

That would be unenforceable - asking former employees not to complain about their employer. That goes for any organization.

Ok, I think I am just going to sit here and listen (read). Maybe I will learn something (wow shocker, me...learning )

[VitaminC]

Motorcycleboy Motorcycleboy:

VitaminC VitaminC:

Do you even know the story about the airborne in somalia? It had nothing to do with war.

Some soldiers kidnapped a somalian and held him in their tent and tortured him. They finally killed him.....he was not a combatant, and it had nothing to do with their mission there....

They also practiced hazing where they made a black guy have nigger written on his back and rub human feces on himself....

I love it when you take an arrogant stance and then fuck up your facts.

Firstly, I didn't get my information on this from books. I was there, I knew Matchee, I knew Brown and I knew pretty much everybody else who was involved in that.

Arone wasn't kidnapped, he was caught infiltrating the camp. So you're wrong there.

Second, "The Airborne" never discussed "storming parliament." That was just some rumour that got started from outside the unit. After the disbandment, the regiment held a stand down parade and acquitted themselves like the professional soldiers they were.

You've claimed that before on here and when I challenged you to provide evidence of it, you responded that you'd "heard it before somewhere." If you're going to continue promoting deliberate misrepresetations then expect me hound you mercilessly everytime you post.

It's a shame when people don't know their history, damn shame.

I told you last time and I'll repeat it here. I heard that on the show CBC Sunday from the mouth of some commander who was trying to get the unit re-instated....

[Motorcycleboy]

$1:

You're a soldier and you post opinions on here.

And I state that this is the wrong forum for it. I have not stated an opinion critical of the government.

So who the fuck appointed you the Cyberspace RSM? Get over yourself. If a troop wants to post something, then so be it. If you don't like it, then meet up with them at their Junior Ranks Club and tell them face to face that they should stop. (Good luck. Try that at the average Infantry mess and you'll be spitting out Chicklets pretty quick).

$1:

If it happens and no one is charged - that's a failure of leadership.
Again, why do you think the CDS has said nothing?

Because the CDS is the boss. I wouldn't expect the Chief of Toronto Police to hold a press conference critical of the mayor either, but it's quite common to see the head of the Police Association do so.

If you want to talk about failures of leadership, I'd be a little more concerned about an army that promotes incompetent cowards like Romeo Dallaire or has sacrificed it's warfighting capability to promote social engineering projects like women in combat than I would be over a few troops spouting off about a Liberal ad that makes them out to be a bunch of goose stepping storm troopers.

$1:

I'll say this for the third time: if you want to post anonymously - feel free.
If you have a nickname, avatar, signature, or the soldier medal associating you with the CF you are not allowed to post any thing you like in a public forum.

Who gives a fuck? It's the internet and soldiers are entitled to bitch, especially about the Liberals. The CF can't stop it even if they want to. If it bothers you so much, then be a good little blade and go tell your platoon commander about this egregious breach of discipline.

[Motorcycleboy]

VitaminC VitaminC:

[I told you last time and I'll repeat it here. I heard that on the show CBC Sunday from the mouth of some commander who was trying to get the unit re-instated....

Funny how despite the fact there's been to my knowledge, three books written on the subject, countless newspaper articles, a full magazine profile in Macleans, radio, television shows etc.

Yet you can't find one shred of proof beyond some supposed interview you claim to have heard with some un-named officer to support your little fantasy.

Funny, I was there. And I don't remember that happening. But I'm sure you're much more familiar with the whole subject than I.

[hamiltonguyo]

what makes Romeo Dallaire a coward? was it his fault that the UN wouldn't give him what he needed to do the job?

[Tricks]

Motorcycleboy Motorcycleboy:

I'd be a little more concerned about an army that promotes incompetent cowards like Romeo Dallaire

I do know a little about him. He is in no way a coward. It was not his fault that The US run UN security council didn't feel like stopping genocide. He stayed, and disobeyed a direct order. That would not be being a coward.....

[Motorcycleboy]

hamiltonguyo hamiltonguyo:

what makes Romeo Dallaire a coward? was it his fault that the UN wouldn't give him what he needed to do the job?

A real leader doesn't just drive on by as 10 of his soldiers a hacked to death by machete weilding thugs.

Nor does he lock himself in his office and have a breakdown as his staff are outside waiting for orders.

Nor does he just blame his failures on the fact he wasn't given the resources to do that job. Lew Mackenzie had similar problems in Yugoslavia, but he found ways to coral the media and shame the UN into paying attention. That's what a resourceful, competent leader does.

[Tricks]

Motorcycleboy Motorcycleboy:

hamiltonguyo hamiltonguyo:

what makes Romeo Dallaire a coward? was it his fault that the UN wouldn't give him what he needed to do the job?

A real leader doesn't just drive on by as 10 of his soldiers a hacked to death by machete weilding thugs.

Nor does he lock himself in his office and have a breakdown as his staff are outside waiting for orders.

Nor does he just blame his failures on the fact he wasn't given the resources to do that job. Lew Mackenzie had similar problems in Yugoslavia, but he found ways to coral the media and shame the UN into paying attention. That's what a resourceful, competent leader does.

I would agree with that, but he did everything he could. He talked to the UN, he had everyone call any one they knew. He got the media on it. The UN just did not want to help. I don't think he just drove by and watched them die. He had no idea they had died until they were brought their helmets...