[raydan]

The excuse, "I didn't know", is too convenient though. We hear it all the time from politicians, CEOs and bosses in general. Difficult to prove either way, I think we should always lean towards the "he knew" side.

Accountability is the word.

[Gunnair]

Lemmy Lemmy:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

jeff744 jeff744:

What would you count as real evidence if the fact the company intentionally told people the wrong locations and was working for the conservative party is not enough? Do we really have to find a video of Harper sitting behind a computer directing the robocallers to non-conservative voters?

Yes.

And yet when we were talking about McGuinty's responsibility for E-Health, you said it didn't matter whether he knew anything about it. "Accountability", was what you said. Same thing, except that this is a Conservative leader instead of a Liberal one. So you don't hold a Conservative leader to the same standard you demand of a Liberal one.

A fair point.

I throw his out there in what I hope is somewhat non-partisan, but do we really want to advocate changes in government with all of the cost and associated political and instability that comes with it each and every time a staffer does something illegal that people think the PM or Premier should have or might have known about?

Really?

[redhatmamma]

jeff744 jeff744:

What would you count as real evidence if the fact the company intentionally told people the wrong locations and was working for the conservative party is not enough? Do we really have to find a video of Harper sitting behind a computer directing the robocallers to non-conservative voters?

The company ( assume you mean rack9) did nothing intentionally or otherwise, someone used their services to make the calls, theya re victims in this and are rightly suing "f-bomb Martin'.

Yes, you need evidence that Mr. Harper and top brass were aware of what was going on, because so far there is not one shred of evidence to support that they did know.

The only evidence you have is that someoneused a robo dialer to make numerous phone calls to various ridings. What the did was wrong and they should be charged and punished under the law for what they did. Coverage of the issue also states that even the Liberals and NDP don't believe Harper and the top were involved. And - conservatives have received similar calls.

There is no evidence to suggest the outcome of the election would be different, in fact the Liberals did win the Guelph riding in question.

Also note that rack9 was used by the NDP so they have 'ties' to the company, that doesn't make them guilty.

Mr. Harper and the party have to make sure that everything is done to find out who did it and how many were involved, but until then you have nothing but the opposition pissing their pants over the thought of by-elections. Something that never happened under ad-scam and probably should have.

Speaking of the opposition, they are the ones who have something to gain by pushing their agenda, and not to mention, it was the Liberals who were caught swapping conservative pamphlets for Liberals...

[andyt]

$1:

There were not a few calls: there were thousands. They did not occur in one or two ridings: there were at least 18 of them, scattered across the country - a handful of which received the automated calls, while 14 received live harassing calls, targeting Liberal households.

There were obviously more than one or two staffers involved here - this took planning and co-ordination.

[EyeBrock]

Find who did it, charge them. Who cares if its Tories, Libs or Dippers? If there's an offence, do them. If any senior Tories are involved, charge them too. Pretty easy eh?

Nobody can defend the indefensible.

[OnTheIce]

Lemmy Lemmy:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

jeff744 jeff744:

What would you count as real evidence if the fact the company intentionally told people the wrong locations and was working for the conservative party is not enough? Do we really have to find a video of Harper sitting behind a computer directing the robocallers to non-conservative voters?

Yes.

And yet when we were talking about McGuinty's responsibility for E-Health, you said it didn't matter whether he knew anything about it. "Accountability", was what you said. Same thing, except that this is a Conservative leader instead of a Liberal one. So you don't hold a Conservative leader to the same standard you demand of a Liberal one.

Apples to oranges.

You're talking government vs. a political party.

The leader of our Government in Ontario is McGuinty. The President of the CPC party is John Walsh.

Stephen Harper is a candidate during an election. It's not his job to manage volunteers and oversee the campaigns all around the Country.

If something happened under Harper at the Government level, regardless of the department, it's his responsibility.

[Curtman]

Conservative scripts misdirected voters in 2011 election, say call centre staff

$1:

OTTAWA—Callers on behalf of the federal Conservative Party were instructed in the days before last year’s election to read scripts telling voters that Elections Canada had changed their voting locations, say telephone operators who worked for a Thunder Bay-based call centre.

These weren’t “robo-calls,” as automated pre-recorded voice messages as commonly known. They were live real-time calls made into ridings across Canada, the callers say.

Thanks to the Harperites for royally screwing this up for themselves.

[Curtman]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Nobody can defend the indefensible.

Maybe not, but OTI is going to give it a shot.

[Lemmy]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Apples to oranges. The leader of our Government in Ontario is McGuinty. The President of the CPC party is John Walsh.

Stephen Harper is a candidate during an election. It's not his job to manage volunteers and oversee the campaigns all around the Country.

You're talking government vs. a political party.

Stephen Harper wasn't the leader of the federal government during the last election?

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

If something happened under Harper at the Government level, regardless of the department, it's his responsibility.

I'd call holding a fair election a pretty important aspect of government responsibility.

[CanadianJeff]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Those six Liberal and NDP ridings going in for a by-election as well?

They should. If this is pinned down to enough MPs in the conservative party they should be paying for all the bi-elections out of the party's pockets. That or be sued by elections Canada once the bi-elections are all wrapped up for the costs.

I don't care what party this was. Anyone who would play with an election like this should be held criminally accountable with possible jail time.

[OnTheIce]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Stephen Harper wasn't the leader of the federal government during the last election?

I'd call holding a fair election a pretty important aspect of government responsibility.

And Elections Canada and the police are investigating the allegations as they should be doing.

Dirty tricks are common in campaigns, elections Canada is kept busy.

Nothing can be done at this point anyways. For any results to be changed, this complaint had to come forth within 30 days of the election.

[QBC]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Lemmy Lemmy:

Stephen Harper wasn't the leader of the federal government during the last election?

I'd call holding a fair election a pretty important aspect of government responsibility.

And Elections Canada and the police are investigating the allegations as they should be doing.

Dirty tricks are common in campaigns, elections Canada is kept busy.

Nothing can be done at this point anyways. For any results to be changed, this complaint had to come forth within 30 days of the election.

Yeah, but it's always fun to watch any politicians political future possibly circling the bowl....

[Lemmy]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

And Elections Canada and the police are investigating the allegations as they should be doing.

I agree. Now replace "Elections Canada" with "Ministry of Health" and you have exactly what I said about ORNGE...an argument you summarily dismissed.

[Curtman]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Lemmy Lemmy:

Stephen Harper wasn't the leader of the federal government during the last election?

I'd call holding a fair election a pretty important aspect of government responsibility.

And Elections Canada and the police are investigating the allegations as they should be doing.

Dirty tricks are common in campaigns, elections Canada is kept busy.

Nothing can be done at this point anyways. For any results to be changed, this complaint had to come forth within 30 days of the election.

It was. That's why it was investigated.

[andyt]

CanadianJeff CanadianJeff:

Gunnair Gunnair:

Those six Liberal and NDP ridings going in for a by-election as well?

They should. If this is pinned down to enough MPs in the conservative party they should be paying for all the bi-elections out of the party's pockets. That or be sued by elections Canada once the bi-elections are all wrapped up for the costs.

I don't care what party this was. Anyone who would play with an election like this should be held criminally accountable with possible jail time.

Doesn't matter one mp or 50, doesn't matter their political stripe. If there was voting fraud there should be a by election as well as people charged who can be identified.