[Toro]

romanP romanP:

Toro Toro:

But I think it sets a bad precedent and I don't think they should be in the debates until the Greens actually start electing candidates.

How are they supposed to elect candidates if they are not allowed to publicly discuss their policies with the other party leaders?

There are, what, 15, 20 registered national parties? The Greens have never elected an MP. Neither have the other parties. They all shouldn't be allowed on the platform.

The Bloc was different because there was a large defection of MPs to the Bloc in Quebec and it was very clear that the Bloc was going to win many seats in Quebec. There is no evidence that the Greens are going to win a seat in this election.

As a Tory, I think its great they're going to be on the platform. Its less votes for the NDP and the Liberals. But I think principally that until the Greens start electing MPs, they shouldn't participate, just like all the other fringe parties.

BTW, I can't remember but did the Socreds participate in the national debates? They used to elect a handful of MPs to Parliament every year.

[Toro]

Reverend Blair Reverend Blair:

Harper was the main force behind trying to keep May out of the debates, Toro.

So the question remains. Why are the Conservatives afraid of the Greens?

The last two Green leaders were old Mulroneyites. Maybe that has something to do with it.

Or, maybe not, considering that the Greens are getting most of their votes from the other two national parties.

As usual, you're trying to spin it as if there is something nefarious going on. Maybe Harper thinks that a party that has never elected an MP should not participate in the debates, full stop. Then, some smart guy told him it was in their best interests to allow them.

Perhaps instead of asking what they have to hide you should ask why Harper relented. Its pretty easy to see that its his advantage to do so. The Greens will hurt your party. They will help the Tories. I think its great and a bad move by the knee dippers.

[romanP]

Toro Toro:

romanP romanP:

Toro Toro:

But I think it sets a bad precedent and I don't think they should be in the debates until the Greens actually start electing candidates.

How are they supposed to elect candidates if they are not allowed to publicly discuss their policies with the other party leaders?

There are, what, 15, 20 registered national parties? The Greens have never elected an MP. Neither have the other parties. They all shouldn't be allowed on the platform.

For two consecutive elections, they have managed to enough votes or just under enough votes for matching funds, and they have candidates in every riding. No other grassroots party that currently exists has managed to secure that kind of electorate. They have shown that they are working hard to get to the top, not merely tesing the waters for fifteenth time in a row.

$1:

The Bloc was different because there was a large defection of MPs to the Bloc in Quebec and it was very clear that the Bloc was going to win many seats in Quebec. There is no evidence that the Greens are going to win a seat in this election.

Of course there isn't any evidence, the election hasn't happened yet!

$1:

As a Tory, I think its great they're going to be on the platform. Its less votes for the NDP and the Liberals. But I think principally that until the Greens start electing MPs, they shouldn't participate, just like all the other fringe parties.

So, unless they can elect MPs, they shouldn't be able to do what it takes to elect MPs?

[Toro]

romanP romanP:

Of course there isn't any evidence, the election hasn't happened yet!

When the debates were held in 1993 and Bouchard was included, the BQ was polling over 50% in Quebec and was on the verge of sweeping the province. In fact, not only did they win 50+ seats, they became the official opposition - which is surreal in retrospect.

So, since its pretty safe to say that the Greens are going to have trouble winning one seat let alone becoming the official opposition, the two situations aren't comparable.

[Reverend Blair]

$1:

Perhaps instead of asking what they have to hide you should ask why Harper relented.

We know why Harper relented...he looked like a vindictive asshole.

He's the only one who had the power to scuttle the debates or keep May out. If the NDP or Bloc said they were going to unilaterally boycott, the Conservatives, Liberals, and the media consortium would have said, "Okay, fewer podiums to set up." Harper was the one with the power here.

Harper didn't want May there though. Why not?

Well, he knows how to debate the other three. It's highly unlikely that May will beat him, but he is going to have to stand there for a couple of hours getting kicked in the sac. His environmental record is atrocious, after all, and nobody likes to take a public sac-kicking.

Then there's Potato Pete's riding. It's highly unlikely that May will win that seat...the combined Green/Liberal vote from last time was still a distant third. There's kind of a weird dynamic there though.

The NDP vote has been growing there over the last couple of elections. There could be some backlash against the Liberals for not running a candidate there. Most of that backlash will move to the NDP. The Greens are closer to the old PCs than anybody in the Conservatives want to admit, and can draw moderate conservative votes. There is a bump for running a party leader in any riding. There is spill-over from Williams' ABC campaign. The Greens being in the debates is likely to magnify all of that.

So there is an outside chance...and it's still a longshot...that May's candidacy could cost Potato Pete his seat. It would likely go NDP, not Green, but it would still be a loss for Harper. A huge loss.

Even if Harper wins the election, a senior cabinet and regional bigshot losing a seat that was previously so safe that it was passed down from father to son looks really bad. Even having to fight hard for the seat is likely to generate some news stories that the Conservatives don't like, and hurt them in other ridings.

So why is Harper afraid of May? At least partly because the specter of Potato Pete sitting out in a spud patch with a borrowed dog and a doleful look on his face haunts Harper.

[PENATRATOR]

I'm starting to wonder if she really is playing the gender card, to be honest, I'm starting to think she may actually have a cock.

[ShepherdsDog]

She's used the Quebec Technique - whine, cry and threaten until you get your own way.

[Reverend Blair]

That sounds a lot like the Alberta Technique, Shep. Firewall Letter, anyone?

[Toro]

Reverend Blair Reverend Blair:

That sounds a lot like the Alberta Technique, Shep. Firewall Letter, anyone?

And now they run the country lol!

[Reverend Blair]

He still acts like he's the Prime Minister of Alberta, not of Canada, Toro.

[romanP]

Toro Toro:

romanP romanP:

Of course there isn't any evidence, the election hasn't happened yet!

When the debates were held in 1993 and Bouchard was included, the BQ was polling over 50% in Quebec and was on the verge of sweeping the province. In fact, not only did they win 50+ seats, they became the official opposition - which is surreal in retrospect.

Totally irrelevant. The Bloc Quebecois represent less than 50% of the population of Canada. They will never field candidates in every riding across Canada, like the Greens have done, because the only ridings that will vote for them are in Quebec.

$1:

So, since its pretty safe to say that the Greens are going to have trouble winning one seat let alone becoming the official opposition, the two situations aren't comparable.

Yes, they will have trouble winning even one seat if they aren't allowed to be a part of public debates where they can dispel ignorance about their party platform, such as the ideas that they're a "one-issue party" or that they "just care about marijuana", which are things I hear quite a lot from people who have not one fucking clue about how our electoral system works, nor understand why it is important to have many choices and many different ways of being represented in a functional, healthy democracy.

Public debates are a necessary part of successful campaigning. They are a means of getting your party's message across to potential voters.

[ziggy]

Reverend Blair Reverend Blair:

He still acts like he's the Prime Minister of Alberta, not of Canada, Toro.

Get used to it,Alberta will be the countries economic powerhouse this next decade.

With jobs comes people and power,Dion and Layton's poor attempt to cripple us will backfire.

Say what you want about corporate welfare here but you dont see the oilsands turning people away at the gate after promising them jobs like ford did.

They will pay for you to come here,help out for tuition for the kids who want to get into the enviro part of the industry and then give them jobs.

My niece is only 16 but she has allready been promised help in that field and a job when she graduates.

Not like she need's help,this weekend in Edmonton she will recieve awards for her work with youth snowmobiling,useing the environment responsibly regarding recreation,and getting more youth into the sport and off the street's and out of the malls.

We call it the Alberta advantage.

[bootlegga]

ridenrain ridenrain:

wait a sec.. In Dion's latest "man of action" campaign, it mentions that he plays hockey. Our PM plays hockey. Screw the debate and let have a game. Can there be nything more Canadian than that?

I watch that...Dion would get checked into the boards and probably never get up.

[Dayseed]

bootlegga bootlegga:

ridenrain ridenrain:

wait a sec.. In Dion's latest "man of action" campaign, it mentions that he plays hockey. Our PM plays hockey. Screw the debate and let have a game. Can there be nything more Canadian than that?

I watch that...Dion would get checked into the boards and probably never get up.

But what would you do about the other three leaders sitting in the bleachers trying to figure out which end of their stick to hold?

[Toro]

Reverend Blair Reverend Blair:

He still acts like he's the Prime Minister of Alberta, not of Canada, Toro.

So he's no different than past Liberal Prime Ministers of Ontario and Quebec Canada.